Submitt to an Agent or Self Publish? Advice Please.

[Lavenderdays]

Hi
I've nearly completed my novel (Summer 2019) and I am looking for some advice as to where to go with publishing it. I am determined to see my work in print if only for my own satisfaction and would like to get my work professionally proof read in the first instance.
Should I send it to an agent or head straight for self publishing (I have identified a local company specialising in this, who have published thousands of books) the whole thing seems like a minefield. Can anyone advise?

Just received first quote for proofreading my book £550.00 = 65,000 words. Eek, didn't realise it was so expensive. I think it will cost about £1300 to self publish my book (in print) with ten copies through this agency (I selected it because they are local to me), I am uncertain whether this price includes proofreading but I sincerely hope so.

I am copy this across to my other recent post, as it is also relevant there.

I know nothing about this sort of thing, so please feel free to totally ignore what I have to say.

What's your aim? Is this a hobby and you just want to have the 'fun' of seeing your novel in print? And you want a few other copies to give to uncritical family who will love your work regardless?
If so, then self publishing seems fine.

But if you want to be able to honestly tell people you have had a novel published, and you want to be taken 'seriously' as an author, then shouldn't you see whether it is good enough to be taken on by an agent with a view to commercial publication?

It won't include proofreading, they'll take it verbatim.

If you want to be an author in book shops, find a good agent and go through a decent publisher (it's not easy, mind - the writers and artists yearbook should help). Self published doesn't go anywhere other than maybe a few hundred copies on Amazon. I say that as kindly as I can as an ex bookseller who had to turn people down on a daily basis where the covers were terrible and content poorly checked and typeset (not that I make any assumptions on your part at all!!)
If it's purely just to get it printed and to own a copy then of course do whatever makes you happy. Have you sorted an ISBN yet?

And congrats on the novel too!

My instinct is to send my work to a few agents first (how many?) and see what happens. I started out writing it as a hobby with no intention of publishing it, but now that I have completed it, I would very much like to see it in print, so will probably go down the self publishing route, if the first route is unsuccessful.
Somebody offered to do some proofreading for me (they seem to have a very good grasp of grammar/English) - I don't know how serious they were (offered for free) but I might pay them to do it, especially after receiving that quote.

Find out exactly what the agency is offering. I work in self publishing, doing layout and covers for independent authors and I charge about half that for a book. But I don't do printing, I just format for Amazon, IngramSpark and Lulu (the major self-publishers).

If they haven't specified proofreading, it probably won't be included in your quote - it's a very different skillset to production. Proofreading can be very expensive and it's very hit-and-miss unless you get a good recommendation from someone you trust. You have line-edits, which is just spelling and grammar, or structural edits which is more thorough and expensive.

There's no harm in getting someone you know to proofread for you, but don't take all their corrections as gospel. If they're not professional, they might not be right.

And wherever you go, don't pay them anything other than flat fees. Nobody involved in self-publishing should get a percentage of your work.

Thank you for that useful advice Whatsagoodusername x

Thanks Woogle, this is all very good advice.

Anyone published a novel and if so, what route did you take?

Another thought, I could just have the first three chapters proof read for now (that's what most agents seem to be asking for) and spread the cost of having it done professionally.

Try crowdfunding

If, you can get the books proofread self-publishing your first book is the best bet.

This then opens doors to publishers for previous work, as when you contact them, you can show your sales for previous books, your social media following etc.

A lot of publishers are more inclined to take a look if you can say you have previously published other work that was loved and can show proof.

I have self-published a lot of books, a 7 (soon8) adult series, and some children's books. I am going to start looking for publishers with my next big book.

ThanksAuthorElsie

It's interesting to hear about your route to publication. I like the prospect of being in total control of my book's publication but I guess I haven't anything to lose by submitting my work to a few agents. I think it might give me a bit of a buzz to send it off but obviously might leave me feeling a bit awful to have my work rejected; I need to keep my expectations low and have a back up plan to scrape myself up off the floor, via self publication.

I use KDP for self-publishing. It is easy you can do it as paperback, kindle or both and not much is needed to publish, there is no cost either as Amazon take a % of it. The downfall is it is only published on Amazon but can be in all countries if you want it published in shops etc you need to contact them with your books.

I think it depends what you want. Submitting to an agent would be the route if you're aiming for a serious professional career in writing. It's highly competitive and difficult to get one. The fact that you talk about writing as a hobby and mention needing a proofer makes me think this possibly isn't for you. I work in publishing and don't know any agented authors who need to have their work proofed at this stage - unless they're dyslexic, of course. If you're good enough to send to agents, you should be able to self edit and proof your work. Being an author would just be too hard a job if you couldn't (obviously the book is proofed by your editor and a proofer before it's published). If you can't yet, you probably need a bit more practise. I'm making assumptions here, but this is just based on what you've said. I would advise researching the two kinds of publishing in detail and having a think about where you sit. Self publishing is almost nothing like traditional publishing. I would - very broadly , don't flame me! - say self is for genre fiction and hobby writers who just want to see their book 'published'. Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

I disagree LunaLovell, as someone who has spoken to many publishers, they all provide editing/proofreading.

You can look at some of the biggest publishers websites, it states that they can proofread and edit work if they believe the story would be a good seller.

@authormummy

If you look above I do say your publisher will edit and proof your book before publication. I mean, of course! You'll probably do several rewrites with your agent, and then several with your editor, plus it will be proofed several times. But my point is you shouldn't really need to pay someone else to edit your book before you even submit to agents. You should be at a level where you can do this yourself to a decent level. I could be wrong, and if so I apologise, but the OP doesn't seem like they 100% understand how editing works so I'm advising working on this rather than spending hard earned money employing someone to do it for you. I also think people misunderstand what 'editing' means. It's not only checking for grammar and mistakes. It's reworking the book. It's fixing plotholes. It's cutting and inserting. It's checking for consistent characterisation. It's thinking about genre. It's huge. So I'm saying you need to be able to be at the level where you can rework your own book. Of course you'll get help and you don't need to be pro level and if you really want to pay someone to do it, you can! But I'm saying it's not required, as it is in self publishing.

Of course this is different if you're working without an agent, with a non traditional publisher or self publishing...

My personal opinion basically is, if you don't know how to edit your book on a basic level, you're not ready for the competitive process of submission. But you can learn! Writers groups and courses. Swapping work with a fellow writer for critiques... be patient and acquire the skills. Don't waste your chance with agents when you're not ready yet.

Thanks for your feedback. I think I am able to do the major editing myself. Of course someone might read my work and restructure a few sentences or question the logic of leaving certain bits in. I think I need someone to read what I have written and pick out grammar and punctuation mistakes primarily, someone in my writing group has offered to do this and initially, that might be good enough for me to send my work off to some agents.
Next, I want to send my work off to be critiqued - not just to my writing group who by and large say 'nice' things, I need to send my work to people who understand the theme of my book because I want it to be as accurate and reflective as possible.
I'm going to chance my arm (or rather my ego) and send my work off to agents later in the year, just to see if anyone likes it enough to take it seriously, after that, if it is rejected, I will probably pay to have a semi-good job done (copy edit) and do print on demand, that kind of thing.
I recently e-mailed Matador for a quote but they want to see a few chapters first...wasn't prepared for that but apparently they don't self publish everything! I would like a professional job done but there are places that can help much closer to home, I think Matador would do a good job but they sound expensive and the fact that they vet the work so to speak is a bit scary if it is not going to mass market anyway.

I think I am able to do the major editing myself. Of course someone might read my work and restructure a few sentences or question the logic of leaving certain bits in.

OP, you don't sound as though you understand the editing process -- I agree with Luna. Major editing might include excising an entire subplot or narrator, and the rewriting of the rest of the novel to accommodate this, or fixing problems in the plot or pace, or rejigging the timeline, or sharpening characterisation. It's not just a matter of restructuring a few sentences. You need to be doing this yourself before submitting to an agent.

Loving the way some people are doubting my writing ability having not read any of my work - it is good to know there are experts out there to call upon. I have already cut out a huge chunk of writing and developed another sub plot, re-jigged sentences, deleted sentences, paragraphs to increase pace, corrected any time-line errors, sharpened characters into more defined beings and examined their character arcs. Researched historical facts for accuracy etc. Anyhow, no doubt I will be relying on you experts to fill me in with what else is lacking in due course.

No one that I can see has speculated either positively or negatively about your writing ability, but I don't think it was at all unreasonable to conclude from your earlier posts, and your willingness to pay a lot of money to have your work self-published when it can be done for free, as a pp says, that you didn't understand the difference between a structural edit and a copy edit.

Good luck with whichever path you take.

I have been published and have self-published so I am in a good position to give advice (if it's not too late!). To get a good (ie big) publisher you need to go through an agent. Agents are tough gatekeepers but the process of writing synopses and everything else needed to make an initial submission is a very useful exercise. There are lots of books giving advice on this. Alternatively you can approach small publishers directly. The best way to self publish is to go to createspace (a free Amazon service) for print or to Kindle for ebook format (free) - they have a very useful editing service as part of the upload process. They won't accept badly edited books. The problem as always is selling and marketing your books - and self-published books are often looked at dismissively by mainstream publishers (so you may inadvertently be nobbling your chances of future publishing success - you certainly won't get your books reviewed anywhere. Lastly there are the pay-us-and-we'll-publish-your-book people. I strongly advise you not to go there. If you want real books in your hand and you don't mind paying money then be your own publisher - approach a design company to lay out, edit and produce book cover - and get a barcode and ISBN number - cost £3-5,000 and print 1,000 copies (say £2-3,000) and then start selling! For niche audiences not a bad way to go but on the say £9.99 cover price you will only get back about 35% if you go through a distributor; 60% if you deal directly with bookshops - and 100% if you sell at car boot sales. Hope this helps.

MSensible, thanks for your advice, I am going to re-read your post later and have a closer look at createspace. Writing for me is a hobby but I have, unexpectedly, written a novel and I would like to hold a paper copy of it in my hand. I don't have any grandiose ideas about the book, but it may well help others given its particular theme and that is why I am hoping it is read by a wider audience; it is the second reason that I want to publish it one way or another.

I am not pretending to have a lot of experience in writing, though I have or in the publishing process (though I have read widely, attended a course and read specific books on that topic) and that is why I am seeking some advice. Thank you once again Sensible, you have been very helpful.

Sensible, can you give me some names of the design companies to whom you refer please or p.m me? I just want to get an idea of the sort of companies to which you refer, so that I might consider this option at a later date. Don't worry, I am wary of spending a great deal of money on this, I just want to take a look at all available options.

First of all, I wouldn't pay anyone to produce a book of mine. You can self-publish easily on Amazon and can get hard copies, too. However, unless you are fantastic at social media then you will really struggle to get your book to readers' attention. There are millions of self-published books out there that don't sell any copies.

I'm a published author and I self-published a couple of books before I got an agent.

My agent had ten years' experience as an editor. Her advice was absolutely invaluable. She could see where characters needed more development, where I'd written pages which were unnecessary, where someone's motivation wasn't understood etc. It can feel brutal at first but once you get over that shock you quickly realise you've met someone who can help you make your book the best it can be. Not all agents can do this well - it's good to look at what they did before they were agents.

And then if it's bought you have an editor at a publishing house. Again, this person will have years and years of experience of working on many books. She will bring another pair of eyes (on top of the agent) and will help further develop the novel.

Then it's sent to the copy-editors who check it line by line, eg if your heroine goes to sleep on a Monday night and wakes up on a Thursday morning, she will warn you! She checks everything - if you say it was 20 degrees she will check whether that's reasonable. She keeps a check of all characters and makes sure you keep your story straight. She'll look for repetitions and check you realise the meaning of certain words. So at this point two other people have read your novel (agent and editor) yet still the copy-editor will find mistakes.

Then it goes to the proofreader who is purely checking for spelling and grammatical errors. You will think there are no mistakes before it reaches her, but you'd be surprised.

So when that person you talk about in your opening post is charging hundreds of pounds, what is that for, exactly? Make sure you know full details before you hand over any money. Bear in mind, too, that you would have to sell hundreds of books just to get your money back.

If I were in your position and was serious about being a published writer, I would submit to agents and take on board their responses. If I had no luck there and was willing to spend £500 then I'd spend it on a freelance editor and seriously take on board their advice. It can hurt, but once you stop smarting, you should realise that they are talking sense. They should have worked in publishing for a well-known publishing house.