Please come and talk to me. Just for some general writing chat and support...

[BiglyBadgers]

I am about a third of the way through editing my stupidly long book (this'll teach me for writing epic fantasy) and need some chat!

I really loved the chat and support on the nano thread, but now novel writing month is long gone and I am alone! There must be other people out there bumbling along needing a friend to chat to...surely....I can provide coffee, cake and excellent free WiFi

Er probably not depending how you're measuring success I'm pretty happy with the odd few sales except that they make me cringe for something that didn't take long to write and required no effort beyond publishing. I think you'd need to publish quite a few and be clever with niches to build an income but it's certainly possible.

Yes, you have to publish a lot, and keep promoting them, to make much money. Linked series seem to work fairly well and (at the risk of sounding bitter) the less original it is, the better it seems to sell.

Ongoing niche sex stuff that works - 50 shades pastiche (yup, still), werewolves or vampires or both and, perhaps surprisingly, there is a big market for gay male romance, written by women and mainly read by women.

There is a whole, very established, subgenre of Japanese hentai (erotic anime) that features gay men and is mainly for a young female market. I'm not so surprised this may be becoming more popular in western erotic literature as well, even though it isn't something we usually think of over here.

See...I told you I'm not really prudish.

That was all very popular when I was in school so I'd not be surprised if it's popular in the 30s market atm.

I'm glad I write for Middle grade, so don't have to worry about steamy sex scenes.

Happy New Year and lots of writing everyone!

Good morning and happy New Year everyone.

Hi can I join in please? I’m going to start a historical romance this month, I’m a planner so I am ready to go. I’m not published and I want this year to be the one where I get a contract!

I would always try and traditionally publish, if you can. The markets are there for everything and you'll be properly edited, copy edited, proofed, so you can be happy with what's going out into the world. Plus there's a big diversity push in publishing at the moment. And plenty of female fantasy readers. If you're saying a publisher won't take it on because nobody reads it then self publishing isn't the answer either.

Welcome Diamond

99balloons I think you are talking to me. When I started this novek I just did it on a whim for national novel writing month. I had no intention of ever getting it published in any way at all. Its only now it's all got out of control and turned into something I actually really like that I am even starting to consider the idea. I personally wouldn't self publish as I just don't have the time for promoting and stuff at the moment (I'm in the first year of a nursing degree) nor do I have enough self confidence.

You are right there are a lot of female fantasy writers, but it is a bit like gaming in my experience that there is still a bit of denial that woman want to read the type of fantasy I write (even though it's obvious they do). I am aware of lots of female fantasy YA authors and there are female adult fantasy writers, but high/epic fantasy is very male dominated nontheless. I think I would have to sell it to the right agent in the right way.

At the moment I'm pretty happy to sit on it until I have the time and head space to do things properly and approach agents in the right way, possibly once I finish my degree. By then I will probably have the whole trilogy done as well

Sorry, I'm on a roll now with the women and fantasy theme...feel free to ignore.

I was part of a SF and Fantasy book group for quite a long time. Barely any other women turned up who said they liked SF and none of them admitted to liking hard space opera. When it came to fantasy pretty much all of them read YA and few of them touched adult epic fantasy with a barge pole.

On the other hand I know lots of women who watch Game of Thrones, so there must be a market out there!

Big publishers aren't necessarily the best option. I had a novel published by Random House. It did not work out very well. Thing was: the imprint that published the novel was a subdivision of a subsidiary. In the immediate aftermath of 50 Shades someone at RH decided to revive the erotica imprint they had shut down a few years previously, and hired an editor to commission books. The editor approached me as we knew one another, and I wrote the book and submitted it - and then had a very tiresome couple of months trying to get any kind of acknowledgement out of the publisher that I had even done that much. They sent through a completely shit cover design which I rejected (how shit was it? They had spelt my name wrong, for starters) and the occasional vague email about the release date but no contract. Eventually, after a chat with the editor (who had been a freelance on a retainer and at this point they were not responding to his emails, either) I emailed them and asked them to confirm, once and for all, whether they wished to publish the book or whether I had the right to take it elsewhere.
They coughed up a contract and an advance, delayed the release date another month, then basically dumped the book out there (including a fucking typo in the blurb, which they never removed) and did nothing else. The imprint died another death. A couple of years ago I sent them a very polite email referring to the contract I had originally signed, letting them know that it contained a clause giving them an option on my next novel and asking them to confirm that they would not wish to take this option up and I could write and publish whatever I wanted with whoever I wanted. They replied, equally politely, that the imprint was not going to publish more books and wished me luck.

Don't even get me started on what else they did with the edit. The book has sold about 100 copies over four years.

Urgh! That all sounds like quite pain in the arse SGB. It is stuff like that making me think I might just not bother and stay writing for my own amusement until I have the energy to deal with either the industry or self publishing.

At the moment I have just realised if I don't step away from the writing a bit and do some revision I am going to fail my exam in two weeks. Whoops.

Well I finally got round to looking at it for the first time this holiday and dh gave me some feedback on my first 3 chapters which I acted on pretty quickly and I now have some friends doing a first draft read through with a view to getting the first 20,000 words or so off to my agent very soon. So I feel as though progress has been made today

I knew I would get out of the Slough of Despond but honestly I really do have to go through this whole psychological roller coaster repeatedly with writing.

It's like - 'it's shit, it's really shit, it'll never be ready. Oh it's coming together a bit, no it's shit, I might as well just start again, there's so much work to do. Oh this bit fits there, and this other bit works there. Oh it's finished.'

Anyone else?

Sounds familiar Certain.

I'm finding editing a killer. I think it's going through it in such close detail. Every chapter I start thinking it's OK, then hating it and then thinking maybe it's alright after all, and then just never wanting to see it ever again.

Yes - the never wanting to see it again is particularly depressing. I am back there a bit. I just read some other texts in the genre and if I need a twist like that in Behind Her Eyes for example I am buggered...

That's why I never read anything in the genre I'm writing in when I write. I just end up second guessing and comparing. It always ends in tears for me anyway.

Yeah I know bigly I shouldn't really but I was calling it research. It's not so much the writing it's the plotting. I have a few plots twists but everyone seems to really be jumping the shark atm.

I do sometimes end up in the ridiculous situation of reading something by someone incredible and amazing like Annie Proulx or Anne Michaels and going 'Well I'll never be able write like this!' Well...er...no, obviously!

The problem with plot twists is it's really hard to evaluate your own. Other people's always seem more twisty and unexpected because, well, you didn't write them.

I remember the first time I watched The Big Sleep and vowed never to write dialogue again because I would never manage anything close to such perfection.

Yes I know I think my twists are probably quite good and I feel as though I am being fair to the reader by laying clues like a proper old fashioned Agatha Christie but I know them now so they seem very obvious as you say!

I do feel that the genre pushes the twist as though it's the be all and end all which it might not be - compelling characters atmosphere and suspense might really count for more? I dunno. Angst angst angst...

As a massive Agatha Christie fan (they are my comfort read, I recently reread all the books of hers I could find in the library and they are always fabulous) I fully endorse more Agatha Christie type crime and less freewheeling, crazy arse twists. Good, solid writing and characters are definitely my cup of tea.

Though I might be a little old fashioned in my crime tastes. I long for people to return to writing books with detectives who aren't middle-aged, alcoholics with marriage problems. Someone give me a detective with a dry, wit and a natty taste in tailoring! Ah, the good old days.

Ah great! My next project is EITHER the zombie or just exactly what you describe.

I may need to pick a genre! I read really really widely though so I have ideas in lots of different genres.

How is the editing Bigly?

Well, I'm already pretty excited about your detective novel, so I vote for that one

Editing is slow and hard. I feel like I am dragging myself through it at the moment. I have loads of other stories milling about wanting to be written instead, including the next one in the series and a few short story ideas. I'm also doing uni work, so when I'm revising I wish I was editing and when I'm editing I feel bad because I should be revising. I think I just need more cake all round.

What's everyone else up to? I hope I didn't scare people off the thread with my rant about women and epic fantasy

I now really want to write a witty detective novel with zombies. This isn't helping my focus

I've made a little progress but not much. The on the fly planning is creating some interesting developments though I'm feeling a bit put off by novels being so very long and taking so much time but I'm trying to ignore that.

I hear you on the two way study guilt. I've got much the same going on today 😂

A murder mystery where the dead person is no longer dead