disillusioned with how unlikely it is to publish literary fiction

[undertheboardwalkdownbythesea]

I had breakfast with an author friend of mine who had literary fiction published by Penguin last year. He has now finished a first draft of his second novel but struggling to even get an agent to look at it. The agent who helped him publish the first novel, he said, did it then because a celebrity introduced him to her and promised that they would help sell the book on twitter etc.

I know this doesn't happen as much with commercial fiction, but what are literary fiction writers supposed to do? If you're a first time novelist, you don't already have notoriety, or have 200k followers on social media, or if you don't have someone famous or someone with 200K twitter followers supporting you, or if you are not marketable as a person...

It seems that you are very unlikely to get published.

And you'll say why don't you self publish? But honestly I don't see that much self-published literary fiction. More commercial fiction, fan fiction and non fiction.

And you'll say, just write for writing's sake, don't write to be published! But isn't the whole point of writing, to be read by another person/other people? Otherwise all my fiction could happily sit in my head and I wouldn't need to write it down.

You're completely right. About every aspect. I have nothing helpful to say, sadly.

Is a way of building up a following to publish short fiction in lit mags? I am a bit surprised about the celebrity connection because I wouldn't usually associate celebs with literary fiction.

The sad fact is that lit fic has very few readers.

Even high profile literary fiction novels often sell paltry amounts.

This article is on the same subject.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/15/literary-fiction-crisis-chapter-funding-authors-arts-council-england

They suggest that shifting arts council funding could help.

If Penguin published your friend's novel last year, I'm surprised that they aren't interested in his new one and no agent worth having will only offer representation to a client on the basis that they have a famous friend to plug their book on Twitter.

Your friend is starting to look for an agent with more of an advantage than you I'm afraid, because they have a track record of some sort, even though I suspect sales weren't good if last publisher are t interested in the new book.

For literary fiction in particular, I think finding an agent is key and writers conferences, pitching events etc are excellent ways of building contacts, as well as the traditional way of submitting your work.

The problem is that writing is art but publishing is a business and literary fiction is where the two don't fit together very well. Then again, some literary fiction - Kate Atkinson and Hilary Mantel, say - sells very well and so it can be done, but there has to be something fresh about the work so that it finds a wider audience.

Good luck!

Hang on, if he had first lit fic novel published last year, he must have had an agent. What happened to his agent contract. Was he dropped? How did his book do?

Also: define literary fiction!

Hilary Mantel isn't literary fiction?! It's historical surely? Historical fiction and that's doing very well at the moment

Hilary Mantel writes fiction that is both literary and historical!

It's a limited market, I'm afraid.

So how were sales of his first book? Did the celeb tweet etc? Surely his agent wouldn't drop him if Penguin took his book on?

It should be in his contract that the publisher has first dibs on a subsequent book.

Hilary Mantel is definitely a lit-fic writer, especially the books she wrote prior to Wolf Hall. Books can be historical and literary.

Personally, I write historical crime fiction with no pretensions to be literary; I'm happy to just tell a good yarn!

And if his book was only out last year, I'd be surprised if his publishers have written him off already. Sales must have tanked for Penguin not to be interested and there must be problems beyond the failure of his celeb friend to promote the book, for his agent to have ditched him. Agents take on writers for the long term, to build a career. That's why they don't take people they think will be a flash in the pan - it's a lot of work to sell just one book.

Things might not be as grim for your friend as he thinks at the moment. I hope next year goes well for him.

I'm an author, though of upmarket commercial fiction. I see deals being done for literary all the time. It's definitely possible, and many publishers are behind authors knowing they have to invest in the first few years before the sales start producing a profit. In fact with Mantel being pretty much mainstream, together with Kate Atkinson and break outs like Jessie Burton i'd say now's a great time.

Sorry Mumsnetters, didn't mean to offend anyone. I guess I never thought of her work as lit-fic personally, more memoir/autobiog (the ones that draw on her personal experiences) and historical fiction. Two genres that do much better commercially than straight-up Lit fiction. But, yes her work isn't just one genre.

Anything that is Lit Fic but crosses a few genres tends to do well. Kazuo Ishiguro crossed loads of genres and his work does well.

I think it really depends whether you work does overlap a few boundaries.

Books that are strictly tied to one genre aren't as popular these days.

BordersMum; apologies if I seemed snappy. Whether or not something is literary is a conversation I've had a lot of times in a decade as a bookseller and the debates over Hilary M and whether Wolf Hall was selling out to be populist...

I'm also quite sensitive about the attitude that some - not necessarily you or anyone else here - have that only literary fiction is word reading and that the rest of us are mere hacks. It's the genre fiction writers whose earnings keep publishing houses in business so that they can publish the high-brow lit-fic.

But to go back to the OP's post, lit-fic sells but it has to have something fresh about it if its to catch the attention of the wider book-buying population.

Cross-genre fiction doing well is not my understanding of the situation at all. Straight thrillers are doing very well (and always have - Lee Child, for example). Crossing genre is painfully difficult. Mantel (historical and literary) is the exception there.

Crossing genres is difficult to write, but the good ones do well and are a joy to read. Literary fiction crossed with sci-fi or history does well. Historical fiction crossed with an element of magic/fantasy does well. To me these are outstanding books. Ones that grab people, become household names.

Yes, thrillers do well as they sell loads too.

Ultimately though, writing any genre you need to write something innovative, exciting, fresh to get anywhere. Transgressing genre boundaries can be a way to do this, or can you can write a 'safe' genre specific novel that's solid and structurally typical but a well told story and hope someone likes it.

But I don't think lit fic is dead. It's just always changing and flirting with other genres.

It is very very hard to get published whatever you write, and harder still to remain published if your first books don't sell well, and most books don't. Publishing is a tough and frankly odd business and not for the fanit-hearted.

But having said all that, the key is to never give up!

Are you in publishing @bordersmum? Intrigued now if I know you...

and harder still to remain published if your first books don't sell well,

Yes, having one book published by no means suggests you will get the next one published. I have a couple of friends in this position.

“helped him publish the first novel” is an odd turn of phrase - that’s really not how agenting usually works...

Usually an agent “invests” in a writer first by spotting talent, nurturing through editorial work, getting the book deal etc. It would be unusual to say the least for Penguin to have signed a one-book only contract that didn’t at least have a restrictive “first look” clause at the next work by that author.

A debut literary novel might well not sell many copies. But it needs to be well reviewed. If it wasn’t, that’s a serious issue.

Second novels by literary fiction authors are notoriously difficult. They’re much less likely to get reviewed, so see above about needing the reviews for the first book. This is where a great editor championing & supporting the writer comes in - can they fight for the writer to overcome the lack of reviews & sales figures & persuade the company that more time & investment is worthwhile?

Your friend doesn’t sound as if it was a traditional deal, or that he quite understands the dynamics, or is not saying something perhaps. There’s no way Penguin would commission on the strength of the promise of a tweet from a celeb. No way! There’s just a few editors & a couple of imprints that do literary and they genuinely only take on things they can be passionate about. The commissioning process is pretty brutal.

So unless it was a competition winner scenario or similar, it’s most unusual at the first draft of the follow-up book not to be either in contract and without an agent...

" you can write a 'safe' genre specific novel that's solid and structurally typical but a well told story"

Sounds rather like the author of lit fic in my writing group who described the piece of mine that she'd just read as "a competently told story for the market you're aiming at".

In the week, where I had two offers from publishers on the table and a third still swithering...

But yes OP, I suspect your friend isn't being completely frank with you.

Burning completely didn't mean that to sound negative. Something to be said for a solid well told story, but I was trying to distinguish from different story telling types. Good writing is good writing, after all.

99 I have some connection to the publishing world, but don't want to 'out' myself so going to run away.

Good luck OP. What your friend said all sounds very strange. Maybe focus on your own novel, you path will differ