Creative writing MA - advice please

[Flashinthepan]

Hello,

I am considering applying for the Creative Writing - First Novel MA at St Mary's University. I have a BA in English and Creative Writing from Warwick. I've been working in publishing since I graduated (about 7 years) but I find my job unfulfilling and have always dreamed of writing more/writing full time.

My dilemma is, we're also trying to get pregnant, we've already had problems so it's by no means a given, but I'm worried if I got pregnant I wouldn't be able to give the course all the attention it deserves. I'm also worried that I'm just not good enough and how I will feel if I get rejected. I don't want it to dampen my love of writing.

Any help/advice/suggestions/slaps around the face with a wet fish would be very welcome.

Thanks.

This is just my take on it, you may not agree of course. Why not just write your novel without taking a course? I looked briefly at the St. Mary's course and I see that they have access to agents which would be useful, but if your novel is good enough then an agent would take it on, regardless of whether you have completed a course. Many best sellers are by authors who have never done a creative writing course. I wrote two novels and self published through Amazon. I am sure I could have done better but I got a real sense of accomplishment from my writing (and sold quite a few as well).

Thanks bigcomfyknickers. I absolutely agree, I could/should just get on and write it. Perhaps doing an MA would just be putting off the inevitable, which is that I need to sit down and write it!

The flipside is having the support/access to critiquing from peers/professionals, the structure of working towards something etc.

There are lots of online support groups for authors. Good luck with it!

Would it be possible to put the MA off for a couple of years, OP? Just thinking that you could then commit yourself to writing the novel with a target in mind, and you'd be in a stronger position i.e. further along in the process when you do finally get to it.

On the other hand, I know sometimes these things are useful to actually help us knuckle down and do it, but I'm not sure I could have focussed on an MA when I was pregnant/newborn though. However, I appreciate that may just be me.

I did find writing a godsend in the early days though, and I found it was a really useful diversion from the stresses of having a baby to look after (in fact, I think I did some of my best writing when my two were tiny), so looking at it that way, it's not an unrealistic goal, but only you will know if you think you'll be able to focus.

The OU now do a part time Creative Writing MA. You could do it over two years if you wanted to ease the pressure.

Have you heard of KritikMe? They offer a three month novel writing course. Less money, less time, lots of hand holding z

Several years ago I taught on a CW masters.

For some students it gave them exactly the impetus needed to crack on and write. But for many it was just more distraction from the hard spade work of actually writing.

I was shocked at how little writing many students did. I was also shocked at how little writing most of the academics did!!!

Thanks for the replies and suggestions! I think finding and online writing support group is something I should do regardless, thanks big.

Part of me definitely thinks I might be viewing it as a magic way to easily get down to writing more often and finishing what I've started (when in reality it won't work like that!).

I also feel that my life has been on hold with fertility problems and I would like to move forward, but with something I would want to do in future anyway, not just some random hobby. Bobbins and Cashel I will definitely look at both of those as alternatives.

Interesting to hear your experiences of teaching a similar course GetA and yours re writing during pregnancy/early baby stages Aristotle.

I took an MA in CW about 15 years ago, and have since taught at two universities, in addition to writing for a living.

It's not a magic bullet, no. But it does give you 1) Structure and deadlines. This is so so helpful, especially for those who have been writing inside their heads for ages, and need to get it down on paper. 2) Community. Being with like-minded, serious writers - some of whom you'll not get on with, but many you will, is invaluable. I still have close friends/colleagues from my course and we've all helped each other get on. 3) You will, at the end of the course, have something approaching a "body of work" that you can show an agent. It is highly unlikely that would happen without no.1, or you would have done it already.

I am highly dubious of online support groups, which are mainly made up of wannabe writers, rather than serious aspiring professionals (apologies to anyone who is the exception).

As far as the possible pregnancy goes I don't actually think it's an issue. I'm not unsympathetic, as I had fertility problems myself, and in fact was having treatment during my MA. You're not yet pregnant, and when you are you can deal with it. Bear in mind there will NEVER be an ideal time to do the MA - everyone I know who made a success of it had a million other things going on in their lives (dying parents, divorce, young children etc), and that's not entirely a bad thing. If you become a professional writer, the world is not going to stop, so the sooner you learn how to focus on your work amid life's chaos, the better.

You have absolutely nothing to lose by applying. Apply and get accepted before going through all these arguments. Good luck OP.

Thanks cingo, really good to get a positive slant on it. As you say, there's nothing lost by applying. Who knows what my chance of getting accepted would be, so I can cross that bridge if it comes to it. If nothing else, I need to write a bit more of it for submission, so at least that would get me down to writing!

I've just passed part 1 of the new OU Creative Writing Masters and I can see there was a stepping up from the undergraduate level as the course progressed. I'm looking forward to the next module (I'm taking a year out as I can't really afford it this year and I want to fill a notebook with source material as it's going to be a heavy workload year).

I haven't been focused on having things published before, but now it's an aim to see if I've become good enough yet. Had one rejection (2 days ago) but that was a top-level competition and it's going off to an anthology this week. I'm getting a couple of others up to scratch from the undergraduate courses.

The OU sent a link to this blog about how to get your work sent out (accepting rejection and getting it BACK out) in an organised fashion.

I took the OU BA Literature through 2 pregnancies (one with hyperemesis), prem baby, BF, sleepless nights etc. You just have to prioritise a) sleep and b) writing whenever there's a gap. It can be done but you'll wonder why several times.

Hello, Flash! I'm a professional author and CW academic. I did my MACW when I was trying to get pregnant (had two miscarriages that year ) and have mentored literally hundreds of other women doing both. You've already had some good advice, but this is my take:

Yes, it's really useful for contacts and for getting your work to a high standard in a year.
You might get the timing just right - you might not. You can always intercalate (take a break for a year) at any end of semester point. I started my PhD (don't do one unless you want to teach) before I knew I was pregnant (DD is like that...won't do anything until it's inconvenient ) and I had to take a year's break at one point. Still managed fine.
You needn't. You might find a really excellent writing group with good ties to agents, etc, and do fine without it...but it's harder, no doubt about it.

Either way, and deffo before you apply, start writing again...find at least an hour a day in your life, at least five days a week, when you can sit down and write (not check your phone, not do the shopping...just write or stare at the screen blankly wondering if you'll ever be able to write anything ever -normal). If you can't do it now, you won't be able to do it after your course, and no matter what the MA says on its marketing, you won't completely finish your novel in a year.... That's when you find out if you REALLY want to write or just think you should.

That last bit's the real question. There is no earthly reason to be a writer unless you actually WANT to write. The money's rubbish and you work all the time! But if you can't stop, then it's time to get really good at it...

Hope that helps and sorry to wick on.

Thanks elfy and doctor. Lovely to hear from some more people who've done it/found something more structured useful etc.

Were you both working while doing your MA/elfy are you still working?

Can I ask where you did your MA Doctor? I have been finding more time to write, at least, I seem to spend a lot more time plotting and planning various stories. I was seriously considering publishing some short stories on Amazon Kindle, not with the hope of any particular outcome, but to feel like my writing is 'out there'.

Sorry! I'm the OP, namechanged.

I did mine at Bath Spa University, eighteen years ago. The course there is a lot bigger now - I taught there until just last year. Now I'm setting up a new MA at the University of Bristol . Best thing to do is think about what you are writing...if you could picture yourself in a bookshop, on an end stack with eight books all around yours, who would have written those books? Whose readers would read yours with pleasure, too (doesn't matter if you've not actually written it, we're in make believe). Now Google MA Creative Writing and each of those names, one after another. Do they teach somewhere? Did they learn somewhere? That might be the right one for you...

There are pg open days, etc.

DON'T 'just get your stuff out there.' Those are your babies. Don't send them naked into the woods. If it's good enough, you'll get published and if it's not, you don't want it coming up first on your Google search for twenty years.

Sorry to be so negative (and bossy), but the post-messing about crafting and positioning is the hard work and your worth as a writer will come from that particular bit of the process. So don't not do it and then let everyone see your unfinished writing. Please! I suspect you're a lot better than that!

XX

Great advice from Doctorwhosit. I'm doing MA by distance learning - I did the first year then had to take a break due to work (single parent/teacher) but last year I dropped my hours and I'm back on track. There's no doubt my writing has improved immensely; I got quite close to getting an agent before I started the course and really glad now it never happened, I can see I wasn't ready. This summer we had to do a project in another discipline, I've been interviewing, it's been challenging but amazing. For me the MA has definitely given me the time and space to become the kind of writer I was meant to be. Whether or not I get into print is another matter, but I am much more keen on being good than being published, nowadays - I've really stretched myself and amazed myself! If you're in it for the longer game I'd definitely recommend it; I've read books I wouldn't have come across otherwise, and changed my approach considerably, becoming a much better writer in the process. If it all gets too much I'm sure you could defer a while, as I did.

bigly place matting.

No Doctorwhosit I'm quite sure I need some bossing around!

Just to clarify, by getting it out there, I more meant that I am aware short fiction is not very publishable, and that if I had some short stories that I felt were ready to be read, self-publishing of those might be the way forward and save the longer stuff for more traditional publishing. But perhaps that is a mistake.

I feel much more inclined to look more seriously into an MA as those who have done them seem to have found them so valuable. But I also know that I need to make writing everyday a part of my life with no more excuses.

When I first wrote a novel, I couldn't go to a nightclass as my children were too young and I was working. I realised a novel had to be about 80,000 words and I knew I could write 1,000 words in a couple of hours. For 80 days I did that, usually between 10 pm and midnight and at the end I had a book ready to edit.

I didn't manage to get an agent for that book and went into a major sulk (lesson to be learned there! I've since developed a thick skin.) A few years later I was able to take an MA. That was invaluable in terms of the workshops, but it was so hard to get your own writing done as there was always something to be written for the course - things I didn't want to write. But like GetAHaircutCarl, I was amazed by how little anyone was writing. They had tons and tons of first chapters. As soon as they were critiqued, they'd throw them away and start a new book. I started writing properly immediately after my MA.

I wrote two more books and couldn't get an agent, then wrote another which got me an agent and publishing contracts.

You have to persevere. It doesn't matter whether you do a course (mine taught me absolutely nothing about plot, character etc) - what matters is that you read books that you'd like to write, you read how-to books (I can recommend some) and that you write as often as you can, preferably every day.

In the example above of my first book, I wrote 1,000 words a day but you could write 500 and have a book ready to edit in February.

I would get going before a baby's born - it's much harder afterwards.

So sorry, I didn't realise that was so long!

Imperial I know exactly what you mean re first chapters. I've started so many novels! I always panic that I won't be able to bring it all together so then I stop and start a new one. Interesting what you say about having to write for the course rather than what you want as well, that's the problem I found with my BA, there was a lot of focus on trying to practise other people's writing styles rather than developing your own.

I have found that I can write and edit 1000 words in about an hour/two, or write but not edit 2000 words in the same sort of time so I really have no excuse.

Fortunately/unfortunately the baby thing doesn't look like it's going to become an obstacle any time soon, but I would definitely like to crack on so that working on my writing has become a part of my life/routine should a miracle happen.

ImperialBlether what how-to books would you recommend?

I did about half an hour of edits the next day, but that was using the Comment function and just making notes to myself rather than actually editing it. So much changes over the course of the book that "Just finish the bloody book" should be your motto, along with "You can't edit a blank page"!

Will look up the books now!

Also, I've just had to write up a 12 page outline for my new book and I've found it really, really useful to have the whole plot there before I start. I've always done this to some extent but because others will be looking at it, I've had to go into a lot more detail than I would have. Normally I put little detail in and get stuck halfway through so I'm hoping this will fix that problem.

Sol Stein's Solutions for Writers was brilliant - I'm sure any of his are.

Stephen King's On Writing is really interesting, though it's a lot about him - too much, I think.

Seven Basic Plots by Christopher Booker is outstanding - so, so interesting.

This Creative Writing Coursebook was really useful.

This short Open University ebook is free.

I'd look for the star rating of other books - look at the bad reviews and see what they say. Look at what the author does - there are tons of crap books on creative writing out there!