So don't agents even bother to send out rejections anymore?

[phospherescent]

My first novel was rejected umpteen times so I wrote a second one.

However, at least with my first novel, most agents replied. So you at least knew they'd received your manuscript/looked at it.

With my second novel, no agent has even replied. I sent out my manuscript months ago. I've emailed some of them, politely checking if they've received it. Nothing.

It was obviously disheartening that my first novel failed but I understood I needed to improve. I really do believe my second novel is better. I'm not expecting a publishing deal just to fall on my lap but I at least expect some kind of reply. Even just a standard one line rejection so you know to move on.

I think it's rude.

They get massive numbers of submissions and going through them is something that has to take second place to working for their existing clients.
They don't mean to be rude but they really do get literally hundreds of subs a week. It must be so much worse than it was in the days when you had to print your book out and take it to the post office - it's so easy to send out a lot of submissions.
I got a request for a full six months after I had signed with another agent. It just took that long to get to the top of her pile and though I let her know when I signed with the first one, presumably that email would have got stuck even further down her backlog.
Just keep going on the third and then if #2 gets picked up you will have #3 to show them as well.

It's not rude.

As has already been said, most good agents just don't have time to respond to submissions they can't take any further. But there's another reason for them not responding: it's increasingly common for rejected writers to fire off a response to that rejection, and there's always a risk of it getting personal or physical. Agents get threats all the time, usually from rejected writers. Some have been assaulted. By not responding to the submissions they can't take further, they've found the number of threats received drops. So now they don't respond.

It's not personal.

But it's a pretty dysfunctional system or business model when you potentially lose so many good writers.

I was formally a nurse and I dealt with agression and physical threats in busy A&E departments. Some threats over email by idiots would not put me off at least letting people know that I'd received their work. After all, people spend years writing novels. It's hard work and dedication so I feel people deserve that at least.

Someone unline said six months? So do I send out more or wait? How can you get on with your own plan when you get no response.

I had so many rejections last time. I never got angry or threatening. I was grateful to know so that I could move on.

I honestly think the system needs reviewed because I suspect there are so many great, dedicated writers slipping through the net who can't get a look in or any feedback.

I don't include myself in that, I could be pretty rubbish for all I know! But yes what a shame for the potential Atwoods and Tolstoys out there.

But it's a pretty dysfunctional system or business model when you potentially lose so many good writers.

They aren't losing lots of good writers by doing this: they might be if they weren't accepting any submissions; but that's not what's happening here. They're just not responding to the submissions they can't take any further.

The business model works fine for agents. It's not nice for writers, I agree, but I've had to work slush piles for years as an editor and have seen this from the other side.

I honestly think the system needs reviewed because I suspect there are so many great, dedicated writers slipping through the net who can't get a look in or any feedback.

All writers "get a look in". They can all submit their work to numerous agents and editors. And yes, at reputable publishers and agencies every single submission is given due consideration. Yes, some good writers get passed over with the system as it is now: but usually because an agent has a client who has just written something similar, or because the receiving agent doesn't represent the sort of work submitted. The writer can always submit elsewhere, and continue doing so.

If you want feedback on your work there are a number of excellent sites where other writers provide feedback. Look at the Writers' Workshop, and AbsoluteWrite to get you going. There are others, but those are the two I've heard the best from.

Thing is, when you're learning to write, agents aren't where you go for feedback. It's not their job to provide it. No-one is paying them to nurture would-be writers. There are plenty of other sources of feedback, paid or unpaid. Join a critique group, online or real life. Take a course. Pay for a critique.
You shouldn't feel like you can't move on because you haven't got replies - writers spend a large part of their lives waiting for responses and they don't just put everything on ice because they have a book out on submission.
I honestly don't understand why you think there might be all these brilliant writers being overlooked. Part of what you need to succeed as a writer is tenacity. If your book is good enough someone will eventually snap it up, or the next one, or the one after that. If nobody ever replies it looks like you have submitted to agents too early in your writing journey. Once you are in the ballpark you may start to see replies that say things like 'not for me but interested to see the next one'. Keep improving and try again with the next one! Good luck!
Can I also recommend From Pitch To Publication by Nicola Morgan, which really helps explain the publishing industry.

Okay thanks for your advice!

I'm possibly just sounding off, as I'm having doubts about whether to keep going.

But I will because I love writing. I'll look at those feedback options.

Good luck everyone!

The Countess is right, she gives very good advice.

I realise how isolating it can be, writing without any feedback. That's why online critique groups can be so helpful. You realise you're not alone AND you can get great advice.

Good luck!

I've received some rejections emails from agents and others have not responded. I don't think it's personal though, as others have said I think they just get so many submissions it must be hard to reply to them all. Have other people read your books and given you feedback OP?

Apologies OP, the Nicola Morgan book is Write to be Published. From Pitch to Publication was Carol Blake.
Both are good but I particularly rate the Nicola Morgan one for getting you into a good mindset.

I really agree with OnTheRise about online critique groups. You need a community because it is hard and lonely and you need support (and people to rant at from time to time who know where you are coming from).
I was on AbsoluteWrite for a while and really benefited from it.

I read my first novel to my local upper primary school reading group (I write fiction for 9-12 year olds). They seemed to love it. Stayed interested anyway and asked appropriate questions. The librarian was positive too.

So of course I convinced myself that at least I'm not a totally awful writer and I plugged on with my second book.

Obviously all those agents didn't see my book in the same way the children did.

I am sure you're not a totally awful writer! It's great that you had that encouragement. But agents are looking for something more - don't forget that publishing is a business, and a very competitive one.
If you write for children, think about joining SCBWI.

I do think most people in publishing seem to be completely overwhelmed just now - and it is awful what another poster said about them getting such dreadful harassment that they have to think about minimising that. What a horrible state of affairs.

It's across the board too - I ghostwrite non-fiction and an editor I know liked a proposal I had at the start of the year. She got back to me last week as she had seen the book on Amazon and realised she'd forgotten to offer for it, and it was now being published by someone else! I think that shows just how much they all have on their plates - I don't envy them.

I understand agents are busy but I agree it is soooo disheartening just waiting and waiting.

The 1st time I queried the wait was agonising especially as 1 agent said she loved the 1st chapter & would reply within 6-8 weeks of receiving the full. It s now 20+ wks & I have given up.

2nd time round querying I've told myself that if the agents are interested they'll respond within a week. I know most agents probably but don't work like this but I need to fool my brain for peace of mind.

Have you tried mentoring? Everyone liked my first book (except the agents that counted) & I didn't know where I was going wrong but I won a place on a (online) mentoring programme & mentor has shown me BIG gaps in my plot, problems, etc

Free Mentoring programmes

Writers in the Margins
Pitch Wars
WoMentoring

I go from understanding it must be extremely busy for agents to getting frustrated and bratty thinking it only takes a few seconds to copy and paste a standard rejection. However, the sensible side of me does understand those few seconds would quickly add up to hours and when you realise this you begin to accept they simply won't have time to respond to every submission. It would be helpful if those agents who don't respond to every submission stated this not their website.

It is so frustrating though and i feel the same as you OP, I just want to know! I now have a spreadsheet and if I haven't heard back from an agent within 12 weeks I assume it's a no. I still have 2 agents I contacted in early March I haven't heard of. I'm assuming that's a no and given up on that story and moved on.

Right now I'm more frustrated that I have a new idea I really want to get started on, but it's the school holidays and I have a 5 year old, so it's not going to happen!

I think if you haven't had a reply from an agent it's fine to give a polite nudge.

Agencies are not well oiled corporate machines. Stuff does go missing. The slush pile readers are often part time and free lance.

chuck do write even though it's the holidays.

Find small chunks of time in the day if possible. If you do become successful, you'll end up having to work around your DC. So my advice would be to grab every spare I've minutes.

That's great you love writing. If the outside acknowledgements come then that's a bonus not a necessity.

That's fine is writing is a hobby sleight.

But for writers who want a larger audience, who want to make it their living ( or part of their living anyway - let's be realistic), they need to approach how to do that professionally and forensically.

First they must write consistently and persistently, sometimes when it is no fun at all and often when it is inconvenient.

Second, they must have a plan to achieve whatever it is they want beyond the writing. Publishing and producing are commercial and highly competitive enterprises and have to be approached as such.

sometimes when it is no fun at all and often when it is inconvenient. Something you love turning into a chore. That's a shame.

Why not self publish? With Amazon you can even get the books printed to order

No, it's really not a shame.

It's about understanding that no pursuit is fun all the time. That creating things involves a multi faceted skill set and each creator will find some of those skills challenging.

And that if you want to take your creative industries beyond being a hobby, you must learn to balance the easy and the hard.

But that is about process. Once you've got your process in the best shape it can be, you need a plan to get it out there.

Are you a successful writer Carl? If so, I stand corrected.

I am sleight. Well I've been successful by my own terms. I'm not Stephen King .

And I would never set myself up as an expert or someone having the only answers in this game.

What I do have, and what I try to share on MN ( and elsewhere) is years of experience

I know how hard it is to write when you've got kids and a job and a million other responsibilities.
Or when someone says your work isn't right/good/exciting enough.

I've also learned through successes and failures, how to get what I create out to a larger audience and how to make a living from it.

Now don't get me wrong. A writer does have to enjoy the process. This is all too precarious to do it just for the end result. And anyway, the end result would probably be rubbish if you didn't enjoy the process.

All I'm saying is don't expect the entire process to be fun.