Anyone up for a novel writing support thread?

[Cel982]

Just thought it might be nice to have a place we could give each other a kick up the bum cheer each other along as we try to get our novels written.

I'm currently on the eleventy-hundredth draft of my first novel - hoping to have it ready for submission in the next month or two. Have been stuck on a niggly plot point for the last few weeks but had a bit of a breakthrough the other night so now the words are flowing again. Am a SAHM with a toddler at the moment so all my writing is done in the evenings when I can tear myself away from the TV. I know, I'm inspiring

So... you?

I don't think anyone is getting too much writing done this week with this lovely weather :)

Right now I'm struggling with a scene where a man has to intimidate/violently confront another man...I'm a small lentil weaving woman and it's so hard because I can't for the life of me imagine roughing anyone up

Lorelei - yes and no, I have an agent and have indie published.

Strawberry, that sounds a fascinating scene to write though.

Countess, that's great!

I'm afraid I will probably wimp out in writing tonight, I have had an upsetting incident. I don't get upset often but unfortunately it takes me ages to stop bursting into tears when I do. Gah.

Sorry to hear that, Lorelei, hope you're all right

Thank you Cel.

How is everybody doing? Hope you're feeling a bit better today, Lorelei.

I haven't been able to do any writing the last few days, though I've had a look at the new Scrivener app for the iPad. I have to say, I'm not loving it. I'm so used to working in Word on the PC, and I can't for the life of me figure out how to edit text using Scrivener, e.g changing font size etc. What I should have done is upgrade to full Word, but it's so pricey. Sigh. Think will have to keep trying with the Scrivener. It must be me, because everybody seems to love it.

Wrote a tricky scene last night that I'm finally happy with, after what felt like a few hundred attempts at it. So feeling pleased with that. Hopefully when I read over it again tonight it'll still seem good...

ooh well done Cel

Aristotle - had you seen regular Scrivener before? I can't work out if you are looking at the ipad version from a place of no experience.

When I first looked at it and did the tutorial, I thought it was rubbish - then someone explained the essentials to me but I was amazed that the tutorial was so bad.

also, weird question - are you sure you actually can change the font - is there any chance it's designed so you type as it is and can only then change when you export in to word? Just a thought.

i am not very well today and having dizzy spells so no writing for me. I'm really bored but I keep finding that screens and books go wonky and I'm too wobby to go for a walk - gah! Makes me wish I listened to audio books.

Hope the scene is still reading well, Cel.

Sorry you're feeling rough, Lorelei. I've never got on with audiobooks either. I fear you may be right about the Scrivener. I bought it for the PC a couple of years ago, but my ancient laptop didn't like it and it crashed more often than not, so I never really got into it. I'll keep going with the iPad app though, as it's better than nothing at the moment.

I'm sorry to hear you're unwell, Lorelei. I hope you're feeling better now.

Good job on the scene Cel.

I'm 'back' from my staycation now, so hoping to get stuck back in today.

I had a message from a review group that upset me a bit and is making question the content of what I'm writing. The reviewer refused to review my book on the basis of one sentence because it is "disgusting and replusive" and questioned what kind of person writes such material.

It's a paranormal romance with themes of horror throughout. I'm not sure what she was expecting. The sequel I am writing currently is just as dark, if not more so.

I don't know why I've let it upset me so much. All other feedback has been great. I've even had reviewers take the time to email personally to tell me how much they enjoyed it. I think it might be because I feel she made assumptions of me peronsally based on my writing. If she'd just said "I'm sorry, I can't read/don't like horror or violence" I think I'd have felt better about that.

Soo - sorry to hear that. I take it you know which sentence?

I will hold up my hand and say there are some things out there in the world that would make me think ill of the creator - well tbh I can only really think of one though the concept of slasher films throws me too - but "paranormal" and "horror" isn't something I would avoid, and I actually think I'm quite oversensitive.

was it a review group where you have to read each other's work?

I've definitely censored some of my own stuff tbh but that's a personal choice and I did it because I thought it would stop it from selling. I'm not going for a hollywood ending but there's a fine balance between what people will accept and what they take personally, unfortunately.

Just to update, I've come to work but pretty much planning to lie down when I get home and out tomorrow night so no writing for me I'm afraid.

Not each others work, that's against Amazon's T&C and not something I'd sign up for anyway. If I hate someone's book I don't want to feel that I need to leave a good review because they're going to review mine.

There are 8 people in each group, you get four books to review and the authors whose books you are not reviewing, review yours.

I know which sentence. It is bad, tbf and could possibly come under slasher but it is one sentence. The act is not described in detail because of the subject matter. It was added for characterisation, intended to show that main character is not human or a nice, fluffy Twilight type monster.

I didn't know Amazon had review groups.

I'm not saying slasher is bad, btw, I'm just saying i can't cope with it personally. but if one sentence out of a whole book is causing her an issue, I don't think I'd worry about it (unless it's like Human Centipede level of hideous, I was thinking that when I typed my original reply tbh but I didn't like to mention it).

didn't know Amazon had review groups.

I'm not saying slasher is bad, btw, I'm just saying i can't cope with it personally. but if one sentence out of a whole book is causing her an issue, I don't think I'd worry about it (unless it's like Human Centipede level of hideous, I was thinking that when I typed my original reply tbh but I didn't like to mention it).

Oh no, it's not Human Centipede level, I hope.

Basically my two MC (who are both evil, sort of) murder a woman for sexual gratification. However, the scene focuses on the how the character feels, watching it happen and not the violence itself. The details of the murder are not written and there's a lot of backstory that explains why she hates the human race and why she believes they deserve to be tortured.

That makes it sound worse than it is. It's really hard to explain without going into the whole plot but it's told from a demon's POV and for the first part of the book, the humans are the evil ones.

It's the sentence in which the MC expresses how satisfied she is, that the reviewer took offense to.

I understand that it's very dark and not something for everyone and that's fine but it was her insinuation that there was something wrong with me, as a person for having written it that upset me.

I mean George RR Martin writes some obsecenly horrific things but as far as I know he is not an actual psychopath.

I guess I just need to get over it and keep writing. No-one else mentioned that scene in any of their reviews. You can't please everyone all of the time.

it sounds like you've hit a nerve on something that worries her
I have a very dark view of humanity and when it creeps out occasionally, people get very upset.

it's not a factor in what I'm writing but I did once have a colleague say to me "I don't know how you get out of bed in the morning if you don't believe in humanity" I guess she's the sort who would be upset by the book.

Soo, I only take specific criticisms seriously if I get them from more than one person, or if it's a reader whose views I really trust.

I may feel my main male character is a charming, self-destructive but ultimately lovable bad boy, but if three trusted readers say they just couldn't get past how badly he behaved to others and couldn't understand how my female main characters still liked and loved him, then I do have a problem and need to rework him to make his appeal (or other characters' tolerance) more understandable.

Some readers fixate on tiny, weird details because it's something they know about and think the author doesn't, or because it simply pushes some particular button of revulsion/anger in them. Yours sounds as if this was possibly the case. I would take note if it comes up again in a reader's reponse, though, especially with readers you trust, and who are well-versed in the genre and how dark or graphic the kind of thing you write usually is.

I know it's a fairly usual thing to have critique groups where you read each other's work regardless of genre, but I think in reality there's something quite peculiar in the assumption that all of a sudden we can lay aside our personal preferences and comment on a genre that might be miles away from what we normally read or who we are as a person. And I'm not sure if I would even want someone reviewing my books who has no sympathy at all with the genre (as opposed to, say, someone who reads historical but not normally YA historical, or someone who reads my genre but normally only boy protagonists - a bit of stretching is fine all round).
So I think ultimately it's not surprising someone might have a visceral reaction to something you've written, that they then frame in moral terms ('What sort of person would write something like this!') and you mustn't take it too hard.
After all, it's unlikely to happen in the normal course of reading - we read books in genres where we 'get' the rules and are prepared for whatever violence or explicitness comes as standard, so it's not going to give you any useful information about how your normal readers would react.

I definitely agree with Pauperback. Sometimes you need to triangulate the critique by looking at it alongside others', or by knowing how that person reacts to other books.

Have been reading this thread for motivation!

Soowrites-Hang on a second. How can a reader make judgements about an author based on what they write? They could be writing about something totally alien to their own beliefs and experiences. It's not about them, it's about the story that they are writing. So if it's set in a rough neighbourhood and features gangland violence there's going to be a lot of bad language and gory stuff, for instance. It seems very ill judged to dish out that sort of criticism and then refuse to review something! She could have just said, this is not my cup of tea so I won't be reviewing it. Ignore if other reviews are positive.

Countess has put that so well.

I just remembered - I was in a critique group and wrote a piece that had a contemporary culture reference in it. One lady said "I loved it but you ruined it with that comment". It turned out she didn't know the reference (not target audience), it was thought provoking but the live was quite niche.

So now Countess has said this, I'm wondering what that person normally reads and will people admit it if it's not their genre? I would but maybe some don't.

Can I join?

I have written the whole book (about 50k words) and have rewritten everything several times.

I'm now reading each chapter aloud, making last changes and finishing off. (writing a satisfying "ok" on each of them). This will be my first version, that I will send to one (or two) beta reader(s).

I'm very excited, but at the same time I want to finish it asap! (my beta reader goes on holiday soon and I have to finish it before he leaves, otherwise he'll never read it.)

I have 31 chapters, 14 of them are "ok".

It's a YA urban fantasy kind of thing.

Funny you should say that Lorelei, the book is actually subtitled Humanity and my demon spends a lot of time musing over the similarities between her race and the humans and has little sympathy for either race.

Countess, I've been given books that are not genres I'd normally read and I have found it hard to review them, so I get what you are saying. However this group specifically states that it is 18+ across all genres, so if you are offended by graphic sex or violence pick another group.

I'm feeling a bit better about it today. I've stalked this reviewers profile and she looks very wholesome so is not the reader I am aiming for.

Good luck with your BETA readers Ishall. I have a 13yo who reads urban fantasy/dystopian if you need any more feedback I'm sure she'd be happy to help. She loves reading.

Oh, you have only to read Amazon reviews of a novel you know and admire with all your heart to see how odd people's readings can be, and what bees they can get in their bonnet! I remember reading a review of Colm Toibin's Brooklyn where the irate Brooklyn-born reviewer couldn't seem to get past the fact that CT hadn't mentioned various major landmarks or businesses she thought he should have, not seeming to grasp at all that what he's describing isn't some objective Landmarks of 1950s Brooklyn but the cramped boarding-house to shop counter world of a homesick new emigrant clinging to the familiar.

For some reason that really annoyed me! But I may be over-invested in 'description needing to illuminate character'...

If the group description is explicit about it being for all genres including adult ones that makes it even more unfair of her to comment as she did! I wonder if they've had similar trouble in the past, which is why they made sure it was clear in the description.