Mentoring?

[SwissArmy]

I was wondering whether anyone working in fiction had had the experience of being mentored on a writing development/ mentoring scheme?

I'm considering applying for one of the regional ones funded by the Arts Council, but - in part because I've never read, and in fact never heard of the novelists who have acted as mentors in the past, who seem to have been published by small regional presses, I did wonder whether it would be any use...? Is an external eye from someone more experienced always a good thing, or should I in fact tread very carefully and be wary of this kind of scheme?

Have a look at the WoMentoring scheme here, although I am assuming that you are female... I've had a bit of help from them (conversation with an agent) and their people seem to be quite high calibre.

Having said that, there is no guarantee that someone high profile is going to be a good teacher. So it might be worth looking around to see what else is available locally, because there are some good teachers who might not be famous. I've experienced both sides of this: was mentored - via another scheme - by a well-known novelist who really wasn't much use even though I paid a lot for that. But I now belong to a group run by another well known novelist, which is quite informal and inexpensive. And he's a brilliant teacher.

The other thing that might be worth considering is Arvon, because I think they choose their people carefully and I have never heard a bad thing about any of their courses. I've nearly gone once or twice, but never quite made it.

Thanks, Get. I'd never come across Womentoring, and it looks great, but I don't think I could claim to have a low enough income to deprive someone else of a place...

You're right of course about 'well known' not necessarily translating into being a good teacher/mentor. I suppose it concerned me, though, because a novelist friend has been shortlisting for a prize, and has been passing on the entries to me as she read, and I was alarmed to find there was (imo) a correlation between the quality of the novel and the obscurity or not of the publisher...

Would you be ok with identifying the other, paid scheme you mentioned? Arvon sounds great, but I don't actually want to go on a writing course or even one of their tutored retreats, I want an experienced editorial eye, advice on pitching, planning my future as a writer etc from someone who knows the business.

Yes, the other one was Gold Dust, but I don't think it was very well run and it is now even more expensive than it was when I did it, so I really wouldn't go for it at all, and I don't think it would give you what you are after either.

Given what you are looking for, I'd be thinking in your shoes of getting a professional edit from someone like Cornerstones or The Writers Workshop and then going to one of the one day courses in which agents tell you what to do. Writers Workshop run one in York in September called Festival of Writing, but there are also one day events quite frequently in London, or so my Literary Agents Twitter feed tells me. There's also quite a lot of useful info out there anyway - this is one of the most useful things I've ever seen about how to approach an agent! There's quite a lot of good stuff on the Writers Workshop site too.

And I do know what you mean about regional/small presses. And I would also be concerned that if someone couldn't get themselves a decent agent/publishing deal how they are going to advise you to do that.

If you are still looking for a mentor have a look at my work - Blow Row and Denial. If you like the style of writing and think I might be able to help get in touch. Adele

Have a look at NAWE (National Associaiton of Writers in Education). They have a very good downloadable guide to mentoring.

I've been shortlisted for a writers' mentoring scheme, and before they interview, they are offering a one-off professional development workshop (I assume in part to see who can be helped most by the scheme).

I'm contemplating a form about my three-year-goals, what might prevent me reaching them, and what might provide concrete help. In some ways it feels almost beside the point because my major goal is to get an agent and have my novel published by a good publisher, but I'm trying to think of other concrete things that might help. (For instance some training in running writing workshops?)

Any ideas, anyone? Are there 'professional development' type things, short of someone waving a magic wand and getting you a book deal with Jonathan Cape, that you could imagine helping you?

Curtis Brown does writing schemes and they are also the agency who handles Marian Keyes, so they would be a trusty bunch.

They're expensive, though, MissB. I think if I was choosing between an MA and CB, though, I'd pay CB as they want you to succeed. You have to be accepted onto the scheme, which is a hurdle, of course.

The scheme I've been shortlisted for is Arts Council-funded and free to me. I wouldn't pay for that kind of thing at this point, if at all, unless there was a particular writer I thought would fundamentally get my work, understand what I was trying to do, and also be a brilliant editor.

MissBattleAxe, I think you mean the CB writing courses, rather mentoring schemes? I think that they, like Faber's and other big 'brand' writing courses, are probably much of a muchness - they will have access to good writers to teach you (though whether said writers are actually effective teachers is another matter) but are extremely expensive. CB are currently advertising a novel writing course that costs £1800 for 15 two-hour sessions. No mention of numbers.

Their USP of course is that they're an agency, and people who sign up presumably fantasise about being picked up by a CB agent.

But really it's just - understandably - another way of making money at a trying time for the book market. They get all those £1800 fees, and the chance to cherry pick books they think will make money without paying juniors to wade through the slush pile.

Incidentally, Imperial or anyone else on here, I'd be really grateful for any thoughts on what concrete help/training you might want to ask a mentoring scheme for? My sense is that this, as well as trying to get you to focus on publication goals etc, is about how to make a living from writing - eg by teaching writing in libraries/prisons/schools etc.

I don't know whether I'd use a mentoring scheme as such. I have a few friends from MN who read through my work and I like to bounce ideas off them. Some choose to read the genre I write and some don't. I find it absolutely invaluable being able to talk to them about plots and characters.

I wouldn't feel qualified to teach writing unless I was making a living from it. My books sell now and I have good reviews, but I'm self-published and I think, for me, I will only feel I could legitimately give advice if I sold in the traditional way.

I think the first question asked if you're paying for a course is always "What have you published?" and if someone's self-published the next question is always "Why didn't a regular publisher want to publish your books?"

I know this sounds harsh; sorry if it offends anyone.

StormCoat and ImperialBlether- you both make excellent points.

I didn't realise that that the Curtis Brown fees were quite so high and I also agree with Imperial that I don't feel you can teach writing until you are traditionally published.

Anyone can self publish and if your vuiews and reviews are exceptional then you will eventually get picked up by an agent, but if you don't then, harsh as it sounds, what would make one self published author anymore qualified than another when it comes to teaching others?

@getinthesea ancient thread but just on the off chance that you're still using this site, I've done gold dust mentorship and was super interested by what you said, was wondering if you have done any further courses or schemes since that you'd recommend?

@Tor88 I am, as it happens. Since then I got my novel through a Cornerstones read and then had a much better idea for a non-fiction book. For that I did an Arvon course (one tutor excellent, one a bit irritating - I think it would be utterly dependent on who was teaching) just to convince myself it was a good idea and then got it published by a mainstream publisher in 2018. Then Things Happened (both in terms of agent difficulties and life) and so my second book, also non fiction, came out this year and the third is planned.

Not sure if any of that is useful.

@Tor88

I think my main issue with Gold Dust was that just because someone is a great writer it does not meant that they are a great teacher (and I say this in part because I did other work, before and since, with an award winning writer who was an amazing teacher).

For redrafting, I would first do it several times over myself, then go to Cornerstones or Arvon. And I was going to say, if you live in London think about City Lit (where I did some v good courses back in the day) but in fact some are online - might this be of use?

https://www.citylit.ac.uk/courses/craft-focus-how-to-edit-your-novel

@Tor88 I could not possibly say... and good luck!