Finishing the novel

[butterfly133]

Okay lovely MNers
I have a novel that's about 1/3 complete - it's been hanging around for years. I have now made a plan to finish it! I have 3 sessions per week where I can really get stuck in - one of them being now....it will be different each week due to rota and family but there are def 3 session per week of 3 hours. Then there's any extra time. (I'm beginning to think I need to use my commute to do something as well, though that seems a bit overwhelming).

the structure is all there so I do know where it's heading, I just need to put bum on chair and do it. I hope some other "finishers" might want to join this thread and update?

My hope is to have it finished by end of September. Yikes! I really must sit down for the 3 sessions per week because I have previously done it in chunks and then I've had to reacquaint myself and ended up wondering "why" I made certain storyline decisions, only to go through the process again and make the same one!

so fingers crossed for more continuity and focus.

now I must tear myself away from browsing MN.....

Joining this for hand holding. Getting my edits from my agent on Friday this week, wibble.

welcome newbies!

I am just en route back from a couple of days away. I was hoping to feel more enthused about things but really I feel more "this SHOULD be done" than ever.

Skylar, re making changes for agents - this is another thing that has worried me. I know a few authors IRL and a couple of them were taken on on the basis they made massive changes to their novel - though the others were taken on with minor edits so it's good to know that does happen.

I feel like I'd have a fit if I did all that work and was asked to do a major rewrite but that may be because I am so far away from doing the work in the first place.

Still not sure where I am with it but good to know that I have hopefully started a thread that will help others.

gosh, so much in "stare out of train window" mode, I forgot the other thing I was going to say!!

which is - irony - discovering MN has possibly been one of the worst things for writing! my family have complained about me stuck to the tablet!! And I've posted while away, which I said I wouldn't.

It is bad because I do have at least 2 evenings of peace where I could write and last week I just watched tennis and was on here. (It varies due to a shift pattern but you see my point).

So now I'm wondering if I ought to put "less time on MN" on the list of ways to enable writing but clearly I spent that time doing other stuff before I found MN!!

hopeful I often come back to the fist draft to find notes to myself like 'this is a bit shit' or 'what is actually happening in this scene'.

I think it's quite common to find when writing in more than one POV, that one voice/story line is more compelling/credible/alive. To you the writer at least.

I wouldn't worry butterfly about agents asking for rewrites at this stage. Just get a first draft completed, edit and improve and send it off when you are happy with it. What happens next is anyone's guess and there's no point letting possible scenarios with agents put you off. To be honest the most probable response when you're a first time writer is thanks, but no thanks or even a deathly silence. But if you're determined, you keep trying.

When my agent accepted my first book, his suggestions constituted a polish not a re-write.

Which is more than can be said for book 555. Now that was a rewrite!

Book 5!

I'm not that prolific .

Hello all, I've also been completely unproductive so far this week but work has been so busy. Will have a couple of hours today and tomorrow when the little one is at nursery and I intend to use them!

Re the revisions, I wouldn't say it's a rewrite at all, more cutting back on a storyline here and tweaking a relationship there. I liked the suggestions though. I think if I didn't I might feel differently. And if I say no there will def be no representation whereas here I've got advice from someone who knows what they are talking about so I'm remaining optimistic. (I might feel differently in a month or two!)

I just wish I had more free time, a although this last month has been unusually crazy for us with engagements and holidays. I plan on doing nothing but work for the next few weeks!

Heh, 555 books, imagine! Though Tom Clancy and his team could do it...

My DH is away at the moment and last night was a total washout as teething baby did not want to sleep. Back at the computer tonight. Am pleased that with fresh eyes, the chapter I'm reading doesn't seem as awful today.

One thing gave me some little niggling doubts the other day. I have a writer friend and we catch up on Google chat a couple of times a week to update each other on where we are. Somehow we got talking about some previous books (unpublished) that I've written. I said there were flaws in them all. Some visible with hindsight, some at the time. And she said in honest shock: "Why would you send off a book with flaws in?"

Now bear in mind she has never finished anything.

And of course you should ALWAYS revise/edit to the best of your ability.

But I was talking about (and tried to explain), the kind of situation when you get to the end of your revision and you're basically just moving commas around. You've had to make choices along the way and not every choice will make an editor happy but you can only tell one version of the story. You make it as right as you can and see what the rest of the world thinks.

For example, my previous WIP was an urban fantasy about two sisters. It was a 'small' in scale story - about their relationship more than a threat to the world or anything. That was the 'flaw' and I knew it. I had one agent reject me, saying 'if it had been (paraphrasing) a story about the MC going to witch school, it would have been really exciting'. But that wasn't my story.

My friend said 'you could've just rewritten it' - and yeah, true, but after spending 80,000 words on one version of the story, I would definitely do minor to biggish changes if requested, but I'm not going to do 80,000 brand new words to 'fix' something when I'd be better off writing something new!

I left the discussion feeling bad that she thought I was willingly sending shoddy material off. But the truth is most books aren't perfect. Are they? Am I mad? Be gentle!

(nb the agent wasn't requesting a revision, they were just giving me a personal rejection which was actually very nice)

No, most books aren't. And you're right that you can only proof read and edit to the point where you're reasonably happy that your novel's as good as you can make it.
Something which is seen as a flaw by one editor or agent might not be by another, so don't give up on your story, hamster. A personal rejection shows that you're on the right track!
Of course not all flaws require a complete rewrite. Maybe you could take another look at some of your old manuscripts and see if any could be resubmitted after some tweaking.
I certainly wouldn't take your friend's words to heart. You've achieved so much more, with or without publication.

All the books/scripts I sub have flaws, as in I've never skipped straight to the proof reading stage with everyone clapping me on the book .

There are always comments/suggestions (which I hate*)/criticisms.

If those comments/suggestions/criticisms are in line with things I'm already thinking, then I fix them, or try to, without hesitation.

If those comments/suggestions/criticisms are things which the agent/editor/sub editor etc don't understand or are finding confusing, then I fix them, or try to, because they're intelligent readers and if they're confused, then it's me who isn't clear enough.

However, if those comments/suggestions/criticisms are about style, voice etc then I do hesitate. These are things upon which I've made careful decisions.

• I hate it when agents/editors etc make suggestions as to how to fix things. They're not writers. They usually don't know how it works. Better to ell me the problem and I will fix it with my tool box.

All this being said, I realise that I am in a diferent position (with my crime novels at least) in that I'm not trying to attract an agent/editor.

If I were at that stage then I guess I'd be trying to make my work as flawless as possible. By which I mean I would address anything that had been niggling me, within reason. Which is not the same as working on a MS for too long so it's allegedly 'perfect'.

I have to say, I have assumed that the manuscript has to be "perfect" - i.e. if someone read it, they would be able to do as if you were a published author. Does that make sense?

So if I thought the pacing was off or the structure needed tweaking, then I would definitely sort that before sending it. But Hamster, it sounds like that feedback was asking your novel to be something else entirely - which is different.

btw I'm back from my break, I'm not at work and I've done...no writing. Lots of fiddling with finance and some decorating. Nothing else! Think it really might be time to call time on this, it seems to serve me better as an occasional hobby.

so if you don't see me on the thread again - happy writing and best of luck to all!

Oh I aim for perfect, ie structurally it should be okay, and most of the words will be in the right order. I've worked as an editor and proofreader/subeditor for magazines, and as a junior in book publishing, so I can take care of the basics. But I think it's very difficult to be truly 100% happy with every aspect of a book. Maybe it's a confidence thing. With my current WIP, the bits I'm worrying about are 'okay' but they don't sing, either. Either way, eventually you have to start submitting it regardless!

With the book example above, I did eventually trunk it. It just wasn't strong enough. But mere revision wouldn't have fixed it, the problem was deeper than that - it needed an entire rewrite to make it sing, and by that point I wanted to move to the next project. Sometimes you have to cut your losses!

I agree WordFactory that I'd rather hear what's wrong than a specific suggestion. I used CritiqueCircle a while ago for some feedback on early chapters of a book, and you get feedback from different people for every chapter you sub (it's actually very useful). Some people would be fantastic and point out strengths and weaknesses. Some would jump in with 'you need to take out this whole subplot and change it to this' - ie their re-imagining of your story. Infuriating!

Really interesting conversation about perfecting your MS. I'm at the edit stage and dh who has been published albeit for a NF book is giving me some hints and constructive criticism, which is actually proving v helpful. I think the MS has strength and my dc seemed to really enjoy it, without knowing it was me, so I have some hope, but also being realistic re new authors usually being rejected. That's fine, if that happens as I want to carry on with further books and refine my style. 20,000 words now into the second in the series, but really need to get the edit of the first done so I can try submitting. Any tips as to where to find agents? There are so many listed on the Web.

Hope the writings going ok, butterfly

The writers and artists yearbook lists agents and publishers.

And there's one specifically for children's fiction.

I found this website really useful.
loutreleaven.wordpress.com/2012/01/30/uk-literary-agents-for-childrens-books/

Good luck!

Thanks so much, word and linds, that's brilliant.

All I've done today is piddle around editing some short stories. I don't know if any of you do shorts, but I use thegrinder.diabolicalplots.com/Default.aspx to keep track of what I've sent where and find new markets. It's very useful. I write speculative fiction, not sure how good it is if you're on the literary/commercial side of things. I don't write much in the way of short fiction, but at the moment I'm finding it a nice distraction from the BIG SCARY NOVEL EDIT. Ahem. I'll do work on it tomorrow, I promise. The children didn't go to sleep until 9pm which didn't help.

Aaargh - Butterfly!! Don't give up!

My new novel has a beginning, end and no middle. I'm going to have to work on that! I love the character and the setting but don't really have a plot, which is frustrating.
On the up side my current book got a 5 star review in the current issue of Books for Keeps, so I'm feeling very pleased with myself.

I do like short stories hamster. I often write them for competitions when I am struggling to finish a novel. But I think that's okay. Sometimes a novel has to be put down for a while and then looked at with fresh eyes. Or maybe I'm just the world's best procrastinator.

Longlisted for the Bridport, which is nice.

Well done, Butterdish! When is the shortlist announced?

Thanks, Linds. You know, I'm not sure. The only date they gave me was the time by which, if I were shortlisted, I would have to send in either 30k words, or a complete MS, which is September 10th.

(They longlist on 5000 words and a synopsis, then ask the longlistees for 15000 words (including the original 5k), then, if you're shortlisted, they want either 30k or an entire novel.)

Which I do have, but I embarked on a big re-edit which turned into a rewrite just before I got the notification it was longlisted, and it hasn't got that far. So I need to decide between spending the next month on polishing 30k to get it as good as it can possibly be, or trying to do the whole rewrite.

Maybe I should start a new thread, but all advice gratefully received. If a prize offers you the option of sending them a total of 30k of a novel, or a completed MS, what would you do? More impressive to have finished an entire novel, or submit 30k really finely-honed words?