Finishing the novel

[butterfly133]

Okay lovely MNers
I have a novel that's about 1/3 complete - it's been hanging around for years. I have now made a plan to finish it! I have 3 sessions per week where I can really get stuck in - one of them being now....it will be different each week due to rota and family but there are def 3 session per week of 3 hours. Then there's any extra time. (I'm beginning to think I need to use my commute to do something as well, though that seems a bit overwhelming).

the structure is all there so I do know where it's heading, I just need to put bum on chair and do it. I hope some other "finishers" might want to join this thread and update?

My hope is to have it finished by end of September. Yikes! I really must sit down for the 3 sessions per week because I have previously done it in chunks and then I've had to reacquaint myself and ended up wondering "why" I made certain storyline decisions, only to go through the process again and make the same one!

so fingers crossed for more continuity and focus.

now I must tear myself away from browsing MN.....

Yes he absolutely self-parodies Hale! And is a wind-up merchant of the highest order in interviews. But for all that I can't help it, I really just enjoy his work and his sensibilities. The Untouchable is about the Cambridge spy ring, it's quite different in tone from his other novels.

Anyway, I'm right there with you on making the classic debut novelist errors Hale. It's one main reason (the other being a non-sleeping 8 month old) the work is advancing so slowly I think. I have a sense that if I ever get around to a second novel I'll be aiming to get it all down much much MUCH faster, having done all the planning in advance. This novel began life as a long short story, which is a stupid way for a novel to begin life

butterfly ah and there was I hoping there was some kind of Ultimate Agent Preference for these things...

Perhaps we could ask the prolific Word whether she rattled off her second novel, having got the structure and detailed plotting straight in her head before setting fingers to PC? I also cherish fantasies that the one I'm planning will take less actual writing time, because I won't have to solve serious problems in subsequent drafts....?

I do think I've taught myself a lot from writing this one, about pace, and what to leave out, and shaping a scene. But it may simply be that one screws up differently in novel no 2?

hale the second novel was much more considered .

Though in a way, I couldn't go too bonkers as I had a three book deal for a series.

So I had my MC, setting, genre etc from book 1.

I went for a very similar structure too. Played it safe really. But at least it was a choice as opposed to blind optimism.

By Book 3 I decided to use a fairly tricky structure with the opening scene of each chapter telling a seemingly unrelated story ( I'd read Tokyo by this point ).

Then I wrote maybe five POVs in a mixture of first, third, past and present. I was playing with the idea of identity and wanted to reflect my theme of us all being many different people.

Though IIRC I did use extensive excerpts from transcripts in book 2 ( which acted as a seperate narrative).

Something I returned to in book 6 actually, when I began each chapter with a ( seemingly) random document.

I've just been working on mine

I've slept super badly for 2 nights, did a lot of physical work yesterday (and feel quite irritable today to be honest) so I admit I haven't got a huge amount of brain in. Feeling like this, I understand why I left it for when I had surges of enthusiasm. It is much easier to walk away from the desk thinking "gosh, that was fun" rather than crossing it off the list for today.

Hello, may I join in?

I'm 35,000 words into a (rough version) full length novel. This is the first one I've ever plotted out. I also have a finished children's story (3-6 years old) which I really must get the courage to start sending out.

I started writing the big story in about February. I have small children and a high pressure job which also involves writing (published but non-fic), so time is limited and sometimes I'm all written out by the end of the day. However I like to write at least every few days, even if it's just 30 mins, to keep my hand in, and keep the story in my head. That way whenever I have a few minutes in the car, walking, or in the shower, some dialogue comes to me and I then write the story around the dialogue.

I currently have the novel on the go, plus a few Harry Potter fanfics which I use as training. I also find that even if I end up procrastinating on the original story one night, I can always work on a fanfic, which keeps me working on my skills - and, as I have lovely followers, gives me much needed encouragement and reassurance.

I always wrote as a child and teenager, and stopped after uni, possibly because my job required some degree of creative writing. I started again last year and it is addictive. I'm now trying to take it seriously and reading a lot of books and blogs about writing technique.

I am reading all your comments with interest and look forwarding to catching whatever pearls of wisdom fall from The Word Factory's lips.

Welcome along!
I've just done some work on a short story. I've realised I'm feeling a bit cba about everything at the moment, but have a few days away planned soon. Sometimes a change of scene helps refresh the mind when I get back.

I also wrote as a child and teen. I think it's the sheer size of the novel I'm finding overwhelming. I tried using Scrivener but it seems set up to look tiny and annoying. So now I'm using Excel for planning.

Alba, do you find fanfics good practice for writing original material? I was wondering whether the risk wasn't that you were leaning against someone else's characters and plotting, and that the instant feedback would make the long, audience-less slog of a novel seem difficult in comparison...? (But my exposure to fan fic is old, back when LOTR was still a happening fandom...)

As I'm editing novel 1, am thinking ahead to the planning of novel 2. As I said upthread, I'm anxious to have the basic structure watertight before starting to write, and not to make similar 'just write and sort it out later' mistakes to those of novel 1. How does anyone else handle planning structural stuff? Individual sheets of paper you move around on the floor? Something more sophisticated?

TheWord you've helped me think about structure. I've been very much as you described with your first novel - just wrote it with barely a thought for structure - but am on the second now and the planning is much tighter.

I got the proof copy through the post yesterday and left it round to see if it would peek dd's interest. She picked it up last night and hasn't stopped reading since so a good sign (it's under a fake name so she doesn't know it's me) - going to see what her 'review' is in a bit.....nervous!

Yes - thanks Word; your comments about structure are very helpful.

Can anyone recommend books that they have found helpful on writing technique?

Hale - I've tried post-its on a board, excel and Scrivener. I would have stuck with Scrivener if it wasn't so hard on the eye.

Now I think i'm sticking with Excel because I haven't got space for the board, plus Excel is portable so at least when I'm commuting, I know what task is next.

I did a bit today. Would it sound strange if I said I am still having trouble remembering stuff even with regular work? It just feels like such a huge project. I tried keeping a sheet of random stuff which I knew had to go in somewhere, but it became ginormous. Then I tried dividing up by character but many storylines overlap.

I am trying really hard to have a full full structure but it's kind of odd, because every now and then I find I have to write a scene in full to be sure it works and is in the right place.

I'm clearly a Luddite because, while I've heard of Scrivener, I'm not entirely sure what it does...? And Excel use is a skill I've always refused to acquire (academics who betray they can use spreadsheets get stuck with more exam admin, in my experience...)

Butterfly, I know exactly what you mean by having trouble keeping it all in your head. I've not come up with a solution, so there are scribbled notes on various drafts saying 'Whats happened to character X?' Or 'Remember Y has had a child since we last saw her'...

Madhair, what kind of thing do you write?

Pasta, Browne and King's Self-Editing for Fiction Writers is very useful, I think.

Oh I use Excel at work and for home budgeting so I like it and I can navigate it easily.

re Scrivener - you can actually do a free trial if you want to test it. What it can do is keep scenes and notes and things in a sidebar, so you can type on your main screen while seeing whatever you need to see. Also, it has different views so you can pick whatever works. It exports into Word and so you can write scenes, drag and drop them to reorder them and then it will compile them into one doc.

I thought it sounded great but when I started to use it I hated it. It's not intuitive and the way it displays just doesn't work for me. I can see why it's a good idea but I didn't have the patience to learn to work with it. I know people who have and they say the patience really paid off, but I figure I have enough of a challenge fitting in writing without learning a whole new computer programme. (If someone invented a more user friendly bit of writing tech, I would be keen to use it).

Ironically, if I ever finish, I can see it might be easier to pop in the novel in Scrivener afterwards for faster compiling of scenes.

Something else I've just done - I went through a bunch of notes I had made on paper and went to put them in my planning. 80% of them weren't even important. I feel like this is proof that I don't do any decent work unless I'm actually at my desk concentrating.

HaleMary I've found writing fanfic very useful for developing my confidence and getting experience in what works, what I struggle with etc... I try ideas, techniques out, refining them before I try them on my original work. It's true that a lot of the work is done for you in terms of characters and backstory, and so now I work very hard on backstory - and it also showed me that to finish, I, personally, need to plan my stories.

I've only been writing fanfic for less than a year but my fanfics are already on some recommended lists alongside writers I really really admire (I was stunned), and someone is currently translating my work. I get some really thoughtful comments by people who actually seem to know what they're talking about. All this keeps me going when I have my frequent Grand Moments of Doubt about my original story.

There is some dreadful fanfic out there, but a few years back (before I started writing again) I started to mentally log everything that makes it bad which I found to be great training. The 'rules' that I worked out that way now turn out to be consistent with the advice in writing books - but I think the fact that I found them myself has helped me to really understand and guard against making the same mistakes - if that makes sense. They feel the same to me as a wrong note does in music now.

There is also some fantastic fan fiction by really good writers out there, so worth a look - the current big site is Archive of Our Own, which has pretty much everything you can imagine. I can recommend some writers if you like.

Sorry for really long post!

I was interested to hear reviews on Scrivener as I was thinking it might be useful but I'd have to upgrade my personal laptop which seems a bit much for a 'hobby'.

My current technique at planning stage involved large sheets of paper (one per chapter, approx), and writing out all the different character arcs and subplots in different colours on different pieces of paper. I then put the key unmovable story points onto sheets, and then worked the other bits around. Sometimes they will make up separate scenes and sometimes I combine various story lines in the same scene. I stapled them to the chapter sheets when happy, although there have been some subsequent changes. Now if I ever sit down and am stuck I look for a new chapter to work on - although I prefer to do it in reasonable order because of all the baggage the characters are carrying.

Books - my favourite has been John Truby's The Anatomy of Story, I also find K M Weiland and Jami Gold's blogs very helpful, even though their own stories don't look like my cup of tea.

Is there money in fanfic? Apols if a dumb question, I've only read some Sherlock stuff that was done for love, so to speak

I think some of the fanfic I knew back in the dark ages when it was all happening on LiveJournal, is now on Archive of Our Own... Yes, there were some excellent writers, but those didn't generally seem to be the ones who landed the lucrative YA fantasy book deals, often out of the HP fandom.

There never used to be any money in it, but that was before EL James. And, in fairness, other ex-fan fic writers who crossed over to writing YA, bringing their fans with them.

I've never written any fan fic, but I can imagine it's a very useful training camp for a writer.

The central planks are given, leaving the writer to concentrate on structure, plot and finishing, which are the things that trip most writers up.

A great premise, a fully formed character, a magical setting are often the things that attract writers to a project. You hear often people saying 'ooh I've had this great idea' or 'I dreamt of this great character'. But that's not a book. Not even close.

Intrigued by all this talk of fanfic, I must go check it out.

Over the weekend, I managed to get some solid work done on the non-fiction piece I have in progress, so I feel a sense of accomplishment there, I think the end is now in sight.

As for the fiction. Some new planning done which I need to take a look at later today. I've written the bones of a new scene which will be inserted near the start and will slightly rejig everything throughout as a result. A background character seems to be insisting she has more to do- I'm happy to go with it for now, it makes sense. In the shower this morning I 'received' some dialogue for a new scene that I haven't yet written because couldn't figure out how to start it, so glad to have that jumping-off point now. Will see how it goes. Word count still not increased by much at all since I joined this thread but some more structuring done at least.

ah, the mists are clearing
I guess the huge growth in YA was inspired by fanfic?

btw does anyone else flit between thinking - more work on structure needed and more work on actual writing needed? I am just looking over my structure and thinking "I'm not sure I can structure the last bit any more because if the preceding bit hasn't worked, something might need to change"?

Perhaps I'm just not accepting how much trial and error goes on here.

butterfly it's always a balance between planning/editing/cracking on, I think.

Without doubt things occur whilst you're underway and you might need to go back/ work then through.

This isn't a problem providing you're making headway too. I think it's the endless tinkering at the expense of finishing that holds writers back.

So today I've realised I need to seed in some reasons why something has happened. And I've printed off the MS to work on it ( am at a go-kart track with four teen lads).

But I've also written the next scene ( in my mind) and am going to get that down tonight.

Thanks, WordFactory. I might need to just sit on the train and ask myself "what can I get done in this time?"

I am not sure if I am doing endless tinkering sometimes.

For those wanting some help with structure and other decisions - Emma Darwin was mentioned earlier and she has a fantastic blog on writing, which is full of very useful advice and instruction. She teaches creative writing (she taught me once) and is one of the few who can explain the 'hows' as well as the 'shoulds'.
It's called This Itch of Writing if you want to google it, or this link should work
emmadarwin.typepad.com/

I'm not working on a novel, I'm working on a script, but can I join in?