The mathematics of rejection - litchick?

[ninah]

I am at the point of sending out my ms to agents. I have been through the process before and am uncomfortably familiar with rejection letters. My question is, how many agents should you approach before you give up? I have finished this project to the best of my ability and begun the next one. I can understand you need a certain persistence, but when do you accept the project in question is actually dead - 10 rejections? 20? In the past I have given up after about 5.
The book I am starting on now is my fifth. The first three were unpublishable. I think the fourth is OK. I am getting better all the time, but I don't want to delude myself.
Getting published is important to me, I need the validation. I don't want to kid myself, there is nothing more embarrassing than a bad story that the author believes is the dog's.

Yes, all of the people I should have qualified with have jobs here and I know all of the staff.

I'm not really motivated, you should have seen me skive in the last course; any excuse to have a day off. I really love what I'm doing now, I just want a publisher or an agent. Conville & Walsh are really taking their time, I don't know if it's because they are soo busy they've not even read it yet or because they are thinking it over. I do like them though, I'd like them to represent me.

I have full CRB checks, I was thinking of asking the local library if I could read some at their story time.

Well done on sending it, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

Belle - my agent only deals with adults but they have a children's secion. He is under A in the writer's handbook!!!

Ninah - next book wull come out in HB next Easter. But these things are only really done for reviews. I'm hoping the PB gets in the shops for the Summer season.

Is that the third one down which doesn't want any unsolicited mail? (there's 6 on the page).

belle i would def ask the local library, also the local preschool/primary? I'd love to get an author in to read to ours, it is so important children see books come from us and we can make stories. It also sets up some great contacts for when you are published.
I would love to write professionally. I wouldn't expect a full income from it (no giving up day job) but it takes up so much time and effort I can hardly justify at present. If it was a profession rather than a self indulgence I'd feel less guilty about evenings spent ignoring the ironing in favour of word count!
don't think c&w slow? it can take 6 weeks or so ... no news is good news?
Litchick I will scan the shelves this summer. As for agent, I've probably been rejected by him a couple of times. I am beginning to have a weakness for a courteous rejection!

by contacts, I mean you have a potential sales db already - imo most preschool/library going mums would order a copy if you'd read to their dc before you were 'spotted'

I plan to. My best friend is a primary school teacher, she'd love this. She reads over my work. I'd really like to do a school visit and get them all inspired.

Do you send work back to an agent if they have rejected you?? (different pieces I mean?)

I do, yes. After a decent interval. One agent was encouraging about my first 'book' and I really like her so she gets an annual sub from me, poor soul.
what I feel is, the work's improving all the time. It's different each time, and there are only so many agents out there. They get so much stuff I doubt they remember tbh.
I do wait 12 months, but it takes me that to write and edit 80k.

Ahh. I want to submit to Penguin but I don't know which one to send.

I'm still quite about them saying my work isn't 'edgy' enough. I wouldn't want a 5 year old to read 'edgy' stuff, they should be learning about the world, good morals for example. They should be reading lovely books that teach them how to get along with others, not captain underpants. I do feel a bit annoyed when they've not even read the book.

bombard them belle you only have until sunday! seriously, you don't get a chance like this every day. You could quite reasonably send two ...
agree edgy is an odd word to use, and hard to know what they mean. Cutting edge? (as you say, wrong for market.) Quirky?
who knows
it's probably a standard letter, I wouldn't try too hard to intepret it. It's not feedback you can readily apply, is it?
unlike 'far fetched' which I found really useful
just read through my aunt's comments in detail and they concur with my friends, so is v v useful and I need to do some serious body work on it
It may end up more anita brookner than ruth rendell which is a pity, but there you are

Find what's right for you. It's easier to write a second book this way. I just forget about other writers and write what I want, silly or not. Most of the time it's just silly.
I'm assuming 'edgy' means trendy so what's 'in vogue' at the moment. I don't like this, classics stand the test of time so there should always be a place for these; just simple, lovely books that show children about the relationships that they will have.

I have:
egg story
a fire that isn't a fire (it's a sunset)
A fox that invites himself to supper
a duck that has a odd dream
the pig story
4/5 of a caveman story
4/5 of the phoenix story
probably some others aswell

I might send:
the fire, because it's actually about teamwork and acceptance.
the pig story, because I love this one.
the phoenix story.

This is hard! The bloke from penguin on twitter seemed lovely, he even gave me a link to the page on their site.

oh, i wondered how you found out about penuin! Those 3 represent a fair range of material. Def phoenix!
but you HAVE to do it this weekend!
v kind of you to share btw, I wouldn't have heard of this in a million years
Yes, I don't write with authors in mind. What I meant was I aspire to crime but can evidently pull off mild social disfunction better
shame. I like a good murder.
which is what I'll be doing to dc tomorrow if I don't go to bed at a reasonable time for once
nn

I've written the email for the pigs tale, I just need to spell check it. I can get them all done for tomorrow. This just feels like it's the right thing to do, scary but right. I've had such a bad year which is starting to get better now so I'll keep my fingers crossed.

There's not alot of difference between mild social disfunction and crime I don't think. I'm an ex lawyer, crime is just a little worse. I always remember criminal law as I liked to learn about the stupid things people did to each other. I do like a bit of murder mystery. It's always the one that's the least obvious who did it!

Sleep well

I've sent the pigs tale (quivers)

Ok, now I've just sent the fire one (it's not actually a fire, it's a sunset and the phoenix one.

I had an automatic reply for the first one I sent, not for the other 2

I didn't get a reply at all ....
glad you went for it
just found an interview date for pgce in my junk mail ... for wednesday! aaargh!
do you find that when you're writing everday stuff gets a bit hazy
I had planned to spend time today preparing for nano but instead I'll be doing real life stuff like tracking down some antique O level certs (yes, am that old)
good luck with penguin
oh, found another rejection in junk too so now focussing on new book and the spring rewrite

It was just an automatic reply, only for the first one though, I didn't get it for the other two.

sorry about the junk rejection, it's in the right place though

I tend to keep on top of things, not doing the cleaning helps I'll see how it goes with penguin, I had a rejection for a snowflake story I wrote ages ago, I'm quite pleased actually as I find it very difficult to stick to a small word limit, they only wnt books less then 750 words.

the auto acknowledge arrrived eventually (junk again)

Ahh.

how you getting on belle? hope life is aok

Hi I'm not too bad. There's a thingy on twatter where you have to come up with 30 picture book ideas in 30 days so I've entered. I came up with 15 yesterday in an hour so I'm well ahead My MS has come to visit and I have double vision which is a PITA. It's hard to type so I'm having a break. I sent a manuscript off to nosycrow publishers so I'll have to wait and see. Other then this things havn't really changed.

How are you?

ms, i didn't realise. Really sorry to hear that. Makes your course tutor even more of a witch, as you should get support for studying not negativity.
In that case I'll overlook 'twatter' lol
I don't know how you get all your ideas belle. It's amazing.
I had a knockback when I got turned down for pgce on fri. However, I'm up to 8k words on new book, made several changes, and I'm fairly satisfied with how it's going. Now the pgc madness is over I'll have more time to concentrate on book.
what did you send nosycrow?

I'm just a 'get on with it' sort of gal I don't know where the ideas come from, I just make them up most of the time. I just look about and they pop into my head. I sent them the adapted version of the great egg mystery, the one I posted on here when I was wallowing in self pity. I've changed it to make the chicken rather nasty though, the language is also easier for children to understand (I hope). I'm pleased I'm not there anymore, I just got sick of her saying I was a 'weak' student even though I already have a degree.

Don't worry about the pgce. Things happen for a reason I think. If something's too hard then maybe it's not the right path to go down in the first place (I'm going to turn this into a book ). How's your weekend?

i like the chicken being nasty. She was bossy to begin with. It's quite quirky - 'edgy' lol -as the chicken stereotype is cosy and dim.
busy yesterday, dressing gown day today. Getting over the disappointment now but not looking forward to telling them at work.
Don't know that I agree about if things are too hard they're not right. Or maybe I am v stubborn. Writing is hard. So is being rejected. And I do that for pleasure! At least I have more time to focus on it now.
Being around someone as demoralising as the witch, now that's hard in a non productive kind of way. I always thought teaching, at any level, was about facilitating and encouraging. If you tell a student they are weak they will definitely feel it. V wrong imo.
But it seems you are making something good come out of it.

I have to wait and see what they think about it. They've not opened the email yet, the boss is in America (I've been chatting to her on Twitter ) so I'll have to wait. The chicken's now called Mavis, she is the only one who can get things done (so she thinks) and believes that all of the other animals are useless. I'll have to wait and see.
I tend to fight and fight. I don't give up easily but there's a time where you have to sit and realise that you are just not doing the right thing. I'll have to wait and see what comes out of this. It feels like the right thing to do, I don't have alot of confidence at the moment though.

Don't worry about work. Is there not a place on the graduate teacher programme?? These pay more then a PGCE and you can do this at any school. They employ unqualified staff and let them do the teacher training course there.

haha Mavis sounds like me! you have some good contacts on twitter
GTP providing college is out of travelling distance for me and my school doesn't offer it. I am sole carer for dc with no support, so my travelling is quite limited within an hour or so range. Doesn't really stack up against someone who has no ties and can relocate to suit. Things are OK as they are, but I want a better future for dc and a professional career for my own satisfaction. I manage on my salary, but managing is dreary iykwim.
Who knows, maybe the next novel will be the key!
hopefully colleagues won't be too snide today - yikes - and also I get some feedback to help when I try again, which I'll do.
I fight and fight too. It hasn't really got me v far but I dream one day it will. What's the alternative, anyway, you have to do your best.
Believe in yourself belle. You seem to be a natural writer and are never short of ideas.