Moving back to Belfast, which grammar schools should we consider?

[Op1n1onsPlease]

I’m considering a move back home to Belfast with my English DH and DC (8 and 5), in time for DC1 to do the transfer test ideally.

What are the good grammars in Belfast these days? From what I can see online it looks like my old school (Methody) has slipped down the rankings a bit.

Im Catholic but non-practising and kids are not baptised. I’d be open to Catholic schools but not sure if they would have a chance as not Catholic?

We will be selling our London house so have a good budget and would ideally live near the school, so this will drive the location. All thoughts welcome.

Religion isn't a criteria (except integrated secondary schools) so being non- practicing is irrelevant. Score in the transfer test is the most important. (Your child could be eligible special provisions, as they've mainly been educated outside NI and that means they don't have to do the test but they do need to supply evidence of a academic achievement and probably do the individual grammar's own test.) Saying the academic attainment in the test is the main factor, some catholic schools do "rank" their feeder schools ie list several Catholic primary schools as a higher criteria than other feeder schools so in a tie break, being at a Catholic primary is better. (Same for integrated schools, for Lagan college you almost need to come from an integrated school.)

My picks would be friends and Wallace (in Lisburn) and methody. I'm surprised methody is down the listings as in recent years the score required to get in has gone up a lot. All 3 of these need a really high mark in the test. Our lady& st pat's knock also needs a really high score.

Are you looking single sex or mixed (keeping your children at the same school) as that's an easy way to strip out some schools.

Where in Belfast will you be living? What primary schools are you looking at?

I honestly wouldn’t set TOO much store in the rankings. Methody, for example, is still considered to be an excellent school. I know it sounds like a cliche, but finding the right fit for your children is just as important. My eldest did extremely well in the transfer test and decided he wanted to go to Lagan College, which has a grammar stream. He was very happy there (until his ASD and ADHD went into overdrive during the GCSE years, which would have happened anywhere.) Some of the highest ranking Catholic grammar schools are extremely difficult to get into, no matter how well the child does. My youngest son’s friend scored 92% in the SEAG, but didn’t get into the Catholic grammar his parents chose (mixed marriage with one Protestant and one lapsed Catholic😁). We honestly thought that, with his score, he was a nailed on cert, but the admissions criteria placed having a sibling at the school higher than attained score and most of the places were mopped up by siblings. There is a fantastic Facebook page run by a woman called Olga Lynch, who has an absolute wealth of experience. I think it’s called The Transfer Tutor Support Group (it’s a while since I used it) and it’s fantastic for getting general information about the tests, but also a great place to ask about schools, as people will answer specific questions. Brilliant resource and very very friendly.

Thanks so much for the replies!

@FedUpWithBriiiiick we will choose the (ideal) secondary first and then find somewhere to live and a primary based on that.

My kids are different sexes and both very academic (so far), so ideally looking at a co-Ed school. My DC1 is very musical - in my day that would have meant Methody or St Malachys (is that still right?) so I’d be open to single sex if it suited each child in other ways.

Ill check out that Fb page @Funnywonder!

DD went to Methody - definitely not the school that it used to be in terms of prestige/quality of teaching! We were very disappointed by many aspects and regret not sending her elsewhere.

If I had to choose another co-ed I’d go for Sullivan or Friends. No real experience of single sex boys schools (DD is an only!) but she has had many very happy, well supported friends at Victoria & Strathearn.

OLSPCK is fantastic but not sure you’d have a chance if you’re not catholic - it’s incredibly competitive and oversubscribed.

That’s what I read @Blueeberry - can you be a bit more specific about why?

My cousins went to OLSPK because they didn’t get into Methody or Aquinas - both got Bs in the 11+ back in the day (about 15 years ago) - so things have definitely changed!

ETA - when you say not Catholic, do you mean you need to be baptised or could I just send them to a Catholic feeder primary? (I am in fact baptised and confirmed Catholic but kids aren’t).

This is what olspk did last year. They start with "bands" so treated all scores over 208 together. Then admitted siblings. (So no help to your eldest.) Then the one you'll be interested in "nearest Catholic grammar." So basically don't live nearer to Aquinas! Then they use actual score.

So for olspk, being Catholic doesn't help.

But you do need to check the criteria carefully. Distance criteria isn't very common but some catholic schools do have it.

For Aquinas, being Catholic doesn't help in terms of proving you've been confirmed etc. But they name a few feeder schools which are all Catholic and for several years you have to be band1 score, and from a feeder school to get in. So you don't need to be Catholic but you do need a Catholic education.

If you're happy with a Catholic primary education you've nothing to lose, as I can't think of any "Protestant" schools which have as narrow a list of feeders as Aquinas does.

Lots of great primaries in Belfast so I wouldn’t worry too much about that. There are no catchments for grammars so you don’t need to live near to get in. Some kids travel quite a bit to get to their grammar schools. There’s really so much choice in terms of good grammars. If you’re looking for co-ed some great ones have been mentioned. I’d also consider Belfast Royal Academy (BRA), they provide a very rounded education, sports, music and the arts are very important. Also Rathmore is an excellent school though I have no recent knowledge.
in terms of single sex St.Dominics ranks consistently in the top 5 for academic results and St.Malachys is also a great school.

id first think about where you want to live and not base it on an ideal school as your dc might not get in. Check out train/ bus routes to your preferred schools from your preferred location.

btw we made a similar move 5 years ago and dc have settled really well and were very happy with the move.

agree with others re the transfer tutor Facebook. Also check out individual schools Facebook pages. Schools really use FB to celebrate pupil achievement so you’ll get a good idea about the importance schools have for sport, music, art, and other extra curriculars.

Thank you - that makes complete sense and definitely not opposed to it so will check the list.

Can I just check on how the bands work - do they rank within the band or is the case that as long as you get say band 1, the actual score doesn’t matter but they go through the other criteria? Think that’s what you’re saying but just wanted to check
ETA - ah I see score does come into it but just lower down?

I have personal experience of Strathearn, BRA, Sullivan and Methody.

I would highly recommend the first two, but not the latter two. Both can be fine, but they both rest on their laurels a bit and coast by on reputation. Sullivan in particular does not produce the results you would expect considering the transfer scores the get in through the door in yr8. “Value added” is poor.

Both also require young people to be very confident and assertive to do well. In Sullivan in particular there is a rather unpleasant arrogance among many of the pupils, particularly the boys. Drinking is also a huge culture in Sullivan. More than I would have seen in the other schools in the area. (I also have first hand experience of other schools outside Belfast, and anecdotal experience of many other schools through friends and family.)

Worth noting though that the new(ish) principal at Sullivan is really trying to change the culture in the school and I do think that’s a good thing.

Both Strathearn and BRA are getting new principals next year. Strathearn also getting a new VP. Those SLY changes always impact a school

Sullivan

Interesting to get conflicting views on Sullivan! I didn’t know many from there when I was a teen so don’t have much to go on, but I’ve seen it highly recommended on other recent threads I’ve found. It’s tempting to go on my own experience but it’s so out of date now and things have changed so much.

Id ideally like co-Ed and the eldest is a boy so Strathearn is out for now.

Lots of schools use bands and treat everyone in that range equally yes. Wallace and Friends have got a bit better imo and have reduced their bands to two or three marks. Many still use seag bands though which cover 20+ marks. This is no good for your eldest, but obviously handy if your next child tries for the same school as your eldest as they will meet a higher criteria. I appreciate that one or two questions in the seag can translate to two or three points but still, if we go to the trouble of giving each child a score (not just a band) then I think that score should be the main decider.

Yes I agree - it’s quite strange given that Band 1 covers such a wide range. Similar to the approach under the old 11+ I suppose where you couldn’t look behind eg an A grade, but As were at least top 25% whereas I think band 1 is top 40%?

Still, it also shows how good these schools are, as they produce results very similar to the top schools in England which are much more highly selective - top 2-5%.

Lots of good advice here. Methody is huge 200+ in each year. Also still a big “rugby lads” culture.

Depending on where you plan to work somewhere in south Belfast would give you access to multiple grammars and then the Lisburn schools. My child is at Rathmore having moved back a couple of years before the transfer and loves it. It tends to be quieter in terms of “outside”
reputation but the focus on academics has really impressed from day one, most of my extended families children also go there or are aiming to, the ones who have completed A-levels in the last couple of years have got amazing grades. They are also really supportive pastorally so far and there are far more extra curricular subjects than when I was there. It is hard to get into and I struggled with the different criteria across all schools. The one to watch for is a few schools have ranking them first as a criteria, most don’t.

To be honest the issue I had in the end was there were just too many good choices especially where I had moved from!

Thank you @Oinkypig - some of my cousins went there back in the day and loved it but I’d actually kind of forgotten about it. Will add it to the list.

I think we will probably aim for south Belfast as it does seem to have the most options.