Tell me about the education system in Ireland

[Rainallnight]

Hello, I’d love some thoughts on this.

I’m Irish and have been living in London for yonks. Seriously considering moving back to Dublin, with DP, and DC who are 9 and 7.

Lots of reasons but the big one is that the school system in England feels too intense for my kids.

They’re both adopted with suspected ADHD/ASD. One of them is behind and becoming miserable. The other is just totally overwhelmed by the pace.

The main problem is the pace of the curriculum and the way in which the school day doesn’t leave much breathing space. My eldest is at real risk of becoming a school refuser.

Friends who have moved back tell me it’s a lot better in Ireland, more child centred and less focused on results, SATs etc.

But I want to test that view with a wider group before we make the leap, which is why I’m asking you lovely people.

Thanks a million.

My two went to a country primary school and loved it. It was quite large compared to a lot of rural primaries with a class per year group. They did some standardised testing but never felt any pressure about it.
There was plenty of variety in the school day and there always seemed to be something fun to look forward to.
My older dc has some additional needs that although didn't require educational intervention were always dealt with kindly.
I do realise we were very lucky. Secondary school was harder - very academic and achievement focused and a lot of pressure.

I only have my experience to go on as my child isn't school aged yet, but primary school definitely seems a bit more gentle compared to what I've read about English schools here.

We had lots of variety in primary, even in the 90s and I can't say I ever dreaded going to school. Always did music, art, nature table (collecting leaves/conkers/sycamore seeds/ wildflowers etc from the school grounds and observing local wildlife) every week and older years did some projects on local history to learn more about the wider community/area. Principal/Teachers don't freak out if you take your DC out of school for a week for a holiday - the normally encourage it (obviously not constantly but once a year is fine). Had testing once a year but it was never overblown or any pressure put on us about it.

Secondary can be a bit more intense, depending on the school. Some have a 90% + rate of students going onto third level education and so can be very focused on exams and results, etc. However there are definitely secondaries that a bit more holistic and focus more on producing well rounded students.

NB I didn't go to school in Dublin so it could be totally different there!

My kids are in a lovely Educate Together primary school in Dublin, I’ve always been very happy with it. It’s very child focused; there’s a huge emphasis on play in the early years, and lots of movement breaks and outside time for all the classes. They do standardised tests every year, but there’s never any pressure or any significant preparation (and the school’s results are always above the national average, so it’s not that they’re just slacking!). The school day is slightly shorter than in the UK too.

I lived in England for a few years, and always found the attitude among parents towards schools and schooling to be far more fraught than has been my experience here in Ireland.

My kids go to Dublin schools, I’m from the UK originally. Love the schools here! First two years of primary (starting usually at 5) are very nurturing and low pressure, like two kindergarten years. Then the rest of primary (six years on top of that) are also lovely.

Someone told me kids get a longer childhood here. One child also in secondary and really impressed so far. After three years they do a Transition Year (before starting the final two years of “sixth form”) which is a year off formal schooling and a chance to learn new things and do trips and work experience.

Lots of SEN support too.

Both are under 12(?) so would have to learn Irish or be allowed an exemption

https://www.gov.ie/en/department-of-education/services/exemption-from-the-study-of-irish/

My dh is English so have nieces and nephews who have gone through UK system and many friends teaching in England. The system seems brutal. I'm not sure there's a massive difference at secondary level but primary seems like night and day in the difference. Children start primary at around 5 and are there for 8 years in comparison to 7 primary school years in the UK (after starting at 4). So Irish children are 13 or close to it starting secondary. My nephew in England was 11 starting secondary and it was a very difficult experience for him.
Primary school children are not "assessed" like they are in England. They have the standardised tests in numeracy and literacy but it is very much played down no need to revise for it and the results are not given to the children. They are basically to identify whether a child is below average and in need of extra support or possible dyslexia. My 3 children are all in secondary and each one had a wonderful primary school experience. Two have additional needs and there was never any stress or upset going to school.

My friends that teach in England are completely burnt out and stressed all the time the workload is massive. I don't think that's conducive to a good primary school experience for children. My English dh loves our system only thing he felt was lacking was PE.

At secondary level the Transition Year, giving pupils a break from exam pressure (they do keep studying core subjects) and a chance to explore other interests is really good. An extra year to grow up in.

Yeah totally agree. I was the first year in my school to do TY (a long long time ago) and I've great memories of that year probably my best year in school. I've one dd gone through ty and one in it atm it's a great year to focus on other things, life skills, social and emotional development, peer relationships, independence, work skills and so on.

The gap between junior cycle and leaving cert is massive at the moment, I think that will lessen with new senior cycle changes, but having TY in the middle I think helps with adjusting to the gulf between the two.

I prefer it... especially for less pure academic kids. It's less intense and broader for longer.

I was never a fan of A levels there are just too narrow at too young an age...

Dublin housing though!! Unless you have family property I'd rather you than me!!!

A lot of children start school at 4. Mine did and my niece and nephews did. Two of my nephews were 4 in July and started in September. I do think starting secondary at 12 is better than 11 as they are that bit more mature. Are any of your children dyslexic op as they would be entitled to an exemption from Irish then? Just to be aware that class sizes in Ireland are generally 30+ per class unless in a small country primary school but then you might have one teacher teaching two class years together. Also depending where you move too, a lot of the children may not have English as their mother tongue which obviously wouldn’t have been the case when you were living in Ireland previously.

Its slower and calmer here. There is nothing like Sats and the equivalent hysteria, there is more sport and art. More single sex primaries, which were an unexpected bonus for my 8yo son when we moved. DD didn't like it though.
Class sizes are the highest in Europe at 28 on average, lower than the UK. And for me the buildings and classroom were better. Modern, large and airy, and not covered in displays. There are displays of work, but not on every available surface. So the rooms felt calmer and less busy.
BUT, there is no centralised applications, you'll be calling round to find spaces, 90%+ are still Catholic (but in reality are more diverse than educate together). Few in class TAs, and less SEN support I found.

Oh and as PP mentioned your DC are too young for an Irish Language exemption, and the schools are generally rubbish at teaching catch up Irish. Do you have enough Irish to tutor them?

A lot of children start school at 4.
The difference is a parent has a choice on what age to start their child. Legally they have to start them before they're 6. Not sure what age your children are but most schools prefer children to be closer to 5 now and that was one of the reasons the 2nd free pre school year was brought in.

I moved with my dc (11 and 8 at the time) to rural Ireland from England and have to agree with others the difference is stark

We are at a minuscule national school and my dc have heaps more autonomy, art time etc and so much less pressure. Youngest is suspected asd and is thriving (was school avoiding in UK).
Back there we were at an outstanding all-singing, all-dancing school who did their best within a manic curriculum, but it is simply too much for many children, like my own.

Dd has had an extra, valuable year of extended childhood in primary here. Theres just so much less...fuss!

I agree. My two when from being one of the oldest in the class in their English school to being the youngest. They have Nov and Dec birthdays.

A lot of children start school at 4. Mine did and my niece and nephews did. Two of my nephews were 4 in July and started in September.

I’m not sure what age your nephews are are, but that’s quite unusual nowadays.
The 2 years of free preschool has made quite a difference to the average school starting age. Most children wth July birthdays now start aged five.

I like the school system in Ireland, but if your children have additional needs I’d be slightly more worried OP. I’d make sure to apply to a larger school where more support is available.This is consistent with the advice given from Asiam, an Irish autism charity, so not just my own opinion.

In smaller schools there may be just one or two overstretched SNAs and, based on my own experience, many children with asd in mainstream are not getting the support they need and the situation is getting worse. DEIS schools generally get more supports as they are in areas of socio-economic disadvantage (though many have a very mixed demographic depending on where they are). Just something worth keeping in mind and it will depend very much on the level of support your children need too.

I wouldn’t call it two free years of preschool. It’s a couple of hours a day which is a bit of a help if you’re paying huge crèche fees! Yes, you’re right though it was long before any government help towards early childhood education fees!

It’s three hours a day iirc, which is what most private playschools/preschools (as opposed to childminders/crèches) used to offer before it was introduced.

At any rate, it’s recognised as one of the reasons behind the increase in school starting age. I started on the dot of 4 too but there were very few playschools then (70s) and no government preschool schemes.

I’d say Do it, but not necessarily in Dublin!

A rural village school with smaller class sizes might be better?

I moved here with DS aged 5 after he’d completed 2 terms of Reception in an English state school. I knew he was ‘different’ but the school weren’t interested and said he was within the normal range of behaviours.

His English village school was quite large with 2 classes of 30+ kids for each year.

When we moved to a rural coastal area here in Ireland, the village Primary had 1 classroom for Junior & Senior infants and a couple of mixed year classrooms up to 6th class which was just his year, so around 12 children in his class.

It made it a lot easier for him to make friends as there were only 5 other boys in his year and being rural, they tended to stick together.

DS has since been diagnosed as autistic whilst in secondary school and has dyspraxia. He is academically extremely able and was reading independently before he was 5yrs old.

Because he was very good at academics, the primary school didn’t put him forward for testing as their budget could only cover 1 or 2 children a year so they prioritised the children who are really struggling with the basics. I think that’s the right decision, to be honest.

DS is doing Irish at higher level in secondary (doesn’t like the way it’s taught compared to the curriculum for modern languages) and neither myself or DH have any knowledge of the Irish language at all, but you could possibly apply for an exemption?

However, DS’s poor co-ordination from dyspraxia held him back from joining in any (GAA) sports which are massively popular around here. They have local coaches coming into school one day a week.
Sadly, there’s not much available after school for kids who aren’t sporty!
No Scouts or other similar clubs in this area.

His Primary teachers were all nurturing and very supportive and the 3rd class teacher brought in a No Ball Games rule for playtimes on Tuesday and Thursday so the children played running and tag type games which DS could join in with. He hadn’t even been diagnosed as dyspraxic at that point so her insight was amazing!

No system is perfect but I know my DS had a better start over here than if he’d stayed in England.

I think it’s a bit different when a child is academically extremely able @Flakey99 .
Mine had severe dyslexia so phonics was a nightmare and literacy continued to be poor even though he was bright. The small, rural school he was in simply didn’t have the resources or enough staff to help him and he was ultimately damaged by his experience there. This, even though it was a kind and nurturing place. The environment was one I liked, but the supports just weren’t there. The staff found it extremely frustrating too.

OP says hers are finding the pace of the curriculum challenging now, so I’d worry about the support available in some of the smaller schools.