Fadas in the wrong place

[heidyho]

I've seen so many people name their dc an Irish name but they've spelt it with the fada in the wrong place eg Croiá or putting in a fada that doesn't exist eg Fíonn . Do they just decide that it looks better that way or what? A quick Google will tell you how it's spelt, you can't just add a fada in where you please!

A crisp English T is pronounced with the rip of the tongue against the alveolar ridge, just behind the top front teeth.

An Irish T is pronounced with the tip of the tongue against the back of the front teeth.

Isn’t that just an ordinary English t?
Why is it described as crisp?

I know of quite a few Cáitríonas my age. I’m not a fluent speaker, but guessing that there shouldn’t be a fada on a, otherwise that would change the pronunciation to Cawt?

Also, can anyone tell me if there should be a fada on the name Clodagh? (On the O)

@ohmondew
@mathanxiety
@MarieDeGournay
@Noyoumaynot

or anyone else who can advise

No, there is no fada on Clodagh. It’s not Irish language itself, it’s an anglicisation, originally taken from the name of a river.

The mental gymnastics required to be a teacher in a room full of Aoibheann, Aoibhinn,Ailbhe, Aoibhe, Aibhe, Aobha, Aobh where nobody's name is pronounced as it is spelled is enough to drive you to drink. Or there are 3 different "pronunciations" of the same spelling!! That plus the mortal offence if you make a slip. Aaaarrrrgggghhhh.

Caitríona or Cáitríona?

Where I am in Ireland, yes, the á would give an aw sound and any Caitríona I know doesn’t use a fada on the a . But á is pronounced differently in Ulster and doesn’t give an aw sound, so it may be okay to use it there. I’m not sure. You can hear the difference in the link below.

The name is a form of Catherine as is Cáit. I can’t say which spelling is originally more correct as I don’t know where or how exactly the name originated. If you’re not in the north, or not using Ulster Irish, I’d use an a rather than á in Caitríona, however.

www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/%c3%a1it

Á is still too long for Caitríona even in Ulster Irish. " Aaatch"

Teanglann is a brilliant site !

@Abhannmor Funny you should say that, I was literally just on it. I adore the name Fraoch (Heather) and I would say “Fray - “ but I’m worried that the correct pronunciation would actually be “Free”?
It’s telling me that Fray-och is okay in Munster Irish, free-och is Ulster?

I would definitely pronounce it ‘Frayoch’ (Munster).

Hard to get that ch right though as the sound isn’t in English.

'Ask a Gaeilgeoir dúchais' is such good advice, Noyoumaynot!

If you want to know how to pronounce Châtellerault, you'd best ask a native speaker of French, not someone from Rathmines or Roscommon...

There are so many sources of 'native Irish speakers' Irish' around us - online, TG4, RnaG - that it really gets on my nerves when I heard someone voicing an ad who may speak Irish fluently, but with all the sounds and cadences of English.

If anyone embodies what the 'proper' form of a language is, it is someone who was born and bred in a native-speaking community, and we're lucky to still have that resource a-plenty.

Parents would be up in arms if their children were learning French or Spanish with Rathmines or Roscommon pronunciation, they'd rightly demand better teaching standards. But any approximation of Irish, no matter how anglicised, is OK, and anyone complaining about it will be accused of being pedantic, or o being 'The worst enemy of the language'😠

Gosh I'm enjoying this thread, it's so cathartic [catairseach, acc to Téarma.ie.
Lane and de Bhaldraithe have purgóideach which is a bit too...biological..
I haven't chased it up in Dineen, because I have other things to do in the next 12 hours]

@MarieDeGournay
Sorry to be so pedantic, but I understand ‘gaeilgeoir’ to mean an Irish language enthusiast rather than a native speaker, who is a ‘cainteoir dúchais’ in my experience. Maybe it’s used differently depending on the part of the country you’re in? I don’t know exactly what OP meant by the term of course.

But either a gaeilgeoir or a cainteoir dúchais could help.

I think Gaeilgeoir originally referred to an enthusiast but now seems to be applied to native speakers too.
Id say fray-och for Heather. Fraochán is the blueberry , which of course grows where heather is found.

Btw I spent a holiday in the Donegal Gaeltacht a few years ago and found the CH sound up there surprisingly soft. None of the foam flecked choking on a fishbone delivery we got from our old teachers. I suspect they were hamming it up a bit !

No need to apologise for being pedantic, Noyoumaynot, athníonn ciaróg...
I agree that cainteoir dúchais would have been better, but I imagine we could spend a pleasant hour or two arguing amiably about it, after which I would agree with you again