Am I an immigrant? Serious question

[pontipinemum]

I really don't know if I class myself as an immigrant or not.

I was born in England to Irish parents. I have never held a UK passport. We lived there for some years. I did all of primary in Ireland then most of secondary in England. Back to Ireland for the leaving cert and then for college.

I'd always call myself Irish.

I was shopping in Navan over the weekend and some people were screaming and shouting outside the shopping centre that 'all the c*nts of immigrants need to f off out' those people were no addition to any society no matter where they were born! But it got me thinking.

I don't mind either way, in primary other kids tried to shame me because I was born in England and was 'foreign'. In England I was called a Paddy (sometimes nasty sometimes as a NN) funnily enough I remember being to told I wasn't born there so didn't belong even though I was actual born there!

I'm another, London-born child of emigrants who returned just in time for me to do my Inter and Leaving. Sixteen Irish great grandparents. Didn't learn Irish in school, resigned to being a blow-in for ever, even though I've lived in Ireland for half a century.

When I see the vaguely hysterical complaints about the percentage of the population born outside of Ireland I'm very aware that I'm one of those. So maybe I'm what those people would perceive as an immigrant. I've never had a non-Irish passport, always been on the electoral roll.

I was old enough when the family moved to Ireland to be very aware of just how nasty and pervasive the anti-Irish sentiment in GB was back in the 70s.

Expat is a type of immigrant, nothing to do with being English. The French and the Spanish (and maybe everyone else?) have words for it that they also use.

The word expatriate comes from the Latin terms ex 'out of' and patria 'native country'.

@DeanElderberry RIP to Shane MacGowan, but everyone seems pretty happy to call him Irish the last two days so I guess we are too :)

@Gwenhwyfar I generally think of expats as living in warm and or exotic places after retiring. That's just what comes to mind

@pontipinemum Was he not Irish? I thought he was Irish born but never really was a fan so never looked into it.

There was a thing from Midleton market on Countrywide this morning where one of the interviewees proudly declared that he was a Clare man and that it was up to 'immigrants' like him to show the east Cork people the way - so I think all of us can just embrace our status.

Yes, spellchecker, that is how you spell Midleton. Away with your extra 'd'.

I was wondering if English born people of Irish immigrants, feel they belong in Ireland more than just English that have moved here, if you know what I mean?

Do you feel you are treated differently to just say an English person that just moved her? My husband is here 25 years now and I feel he is treated differently because he can't say oh my Mum or Dad is Irish. I read a lot of people on Mumsnet threads saying that they don't experience anti English sentiment but my husband has. I wonder if the ones that don't experience it have an Irish parent?

We were on holiday over the summer in Ireland and were sitting in a crowded pub in a corner. An Australian couple asked if the 2 stools near me were free and I said sure. I was chatting away to them and they said they were Australian but their Grandparents were Irish and they always wanted to visit. They started talking to my husband and he said he was from England, well there faces changed. They asked if he had Irish ancestry and he said no. They asked what brought him to Ireland and he replied Love. They looked at me and asked if my family and people in Ireland were ok with me being with an English man? I was shocked.

He knows a lot about Ireland now living here 25 years and having an interest in history. They new very little compared to him. Yet I got the impression that they would feel they have a right to live in Ireland more than my husband. They left after that as I felt they didn't want to be in an English mans company.

I think I have a habit of putting a double in Midleton. I must do better.

Knew not new.

Love is a great reply and sufficient!

Also my husband said he was from England because they asked him where he was from when they heard his accent. He didn't volunteer that information.

"@Gwenhwyfar I generally think of expats as living in warm and or exotic places after retiring. That's just what comes to mind"

Well, you're wrong about that. It's not just the ones who live in Spain!

@Gwenhwyfar Oh ya I know I'm wrong, but I just mean when I hear of 'expats' that's what I think of.

@Theblacksheepandme that was beyond rude of them. "They looked at me and asked if my family and people in Ireland were ok with me being with an English man? "" I think they had a massively skewed/ outdated vision of Ireland. Quite a few people in my family have English spouses.

"I wonder if the ones that don't experience it have an Irish parent?" both my parents (even if I don't know my dad) are Irish so I don't know how people would act towards me if they weren't. I did get bullied at primary, only by one or two, for being English most didn't pass any remarks and I had lots of great friends, some are still friends now.

And moving for love is more than a good enough reason and I worked in my small home town an English man who moved there for love too. Everywhere I worked in Dublin there were always one or two English people. 1 I remember did have some sort of Irish connection but I can't remember what. 1 I know moved for his girlfriend.

@Psychoticbreak he was born in England, but had Irish parents.

It’s an interesting question. I’d consider you Irish and definitely not think of you as an immigrant, but I suppose it’s in the sense of gael and gall, rather than birthplace per se.

That said, I have a brother in America and we all happily refer to him, (Irish) sil and two dc (one born here, one in US) as “the Americans”. But half my family (older generation and cousins) are in the UK and they’d never be referred to as English or Brits, because that would feel like a pejorative. I guess that’s history pushing through.

The Irish obsession with where you’re from is ancient. “Roimh thóin mná” was a Brehon law term for a man who married outside his clan (literally “following the arse of a woman”) and whose face(honour) price was therefore half his wife’s which was half her father’s.

I still find myself offering up my genealogies to the older generation; talking about precisely where you’re from and who you’re related to is as ubiquitous as the weather in that age group. And I’m a green eyed, freckled red head.

I think for many people old enough to remember the heartbreak of emigration, there can be an appreciation for people coming here instead. My mil asks everyone where they’re from, and what sort of weather they have there, whether the answer is likely to be Galway or Nigeria and will not be persuaded that it might be an insensitive question. The thing is she loves people, and really wants to hear about them.

@Nonplusultra love that 'what's the weather like' my experience has been the world over people often ask where you are from. Some are genuinely very interested, some it's just a passing question.

Op, I was born in England ( conceived in Ireland ) to Irish parents. In fact, my parents were "flown over here from Dublin airport" as "they were not married".

I am so very proud to have been born and raised in England. My parents were dysfunctional and ill equipped to have children but I am so glad I was born here and I have thrived and been successful.

I am very proud to be English and my now grown up sons are also English. They have Irish relatives but they and I are very English and our extended Irish family respect this.