Are Irish kids less confident?

[Southlondoner88]

DH and I are both Irish, living in London, I left very young, at age 20 and visit a few times a year. I currently work with children so have noticed some differences in child rearing and the reason I am pondering is because we are thinking of starting a family here in London but may move back to Dublin some day. I remember my parents being awful, we were seen and not heard sort of thing and I thought it was just my crap parents but perhaps it’s a cultural thing?

I was recently on a visit to Dublin and I’ve noticed that most of our nieces and nephews are very shy and quite sheltered really, they are rarely taken out to parks/ cafes/ museums etc.. their parents prefer them to be sitting quietly on screens, if they are playing and raising their voices even a little, they will be told off, they are constantly being told to shhhh, and seem reluctant to explore their environments or talk confidently to adults around them.

Whereas the children I work with and see day-day in London are much more confident, they will come right up to adults and ask for what they need, they will look you in the eye and if you told them off for anything, they’d challenge you. I was recently at a school assembly where children put on a performance, the children were singing their hearts out, remembered their lines without prompting and just seemed to have no issue with being the centre of attention. I thought they were much older than they were but turns out they were just reception class.
I used to live in the states and it was the same, I remember being shocked at seeing parents getting down on the floor and actually playing with their children rather than just sitting and watching them from afar.

I maybe just be comparing classes here as where I live is quite middle class and our families are very working class with little education themselves. I’d like to think if we moved back over that we’d live somewhere where it’s ok to let children be themselves and go to parks, trips to the mountains, theatre, cafes etc. surely some parts of Dublin are like that and so insular?

Basically just pondering life really and it would be nice if someone could fill me in on whether they see the cultural difference I see.

Meant to say ‘not so insular’

I definitely think there's a element of truth to this but it's multi-faceted. I was brought up over 30 years ago in Ireland and it was as you say. I wasn't really pushed to be confident by my parents (unwittingly I think!). I have a big family with younger members and they are more confident and self assured but are fairly quiet individuals.
On the flip side to this, I've lived in London since the financial crash and have been able to progress fairly well in my career here. I often meet or hear about Irish people doing well and in great careers here, so I figure Ireland must be doing something right both culturally and educationally to turn out so many talented people.
I also think young people in London are so confident due to the cultural mix. It's so unique to get to benefit directly from living alongside people from all over the world and it gives the youth here an amazing gift.

Yes that’s true, the education is meant to be really good in Ireland or so everyone says but I haven’t really researched how it compares to the British system. Some parts of Dublin are very multi cultural now, my friend lives just outside of the city on the north side and I must say her child is rather confident (bolder than my nieces I would say) my friend is not Irish though 🤔

Not my experience. We lived in Ireland for a couple of years recently, I found Irish children were more innocent for a want of a better word, none of my DDs friends had phones where as all of her English friends do. Irish friends still enjoying toys and playing games, when starting school in Ireland kids were playing elastics (England Ireland Scotland Wales games), Kirby and all sorts of games. Where the kids in England are to old and cool for these types of games. The town we lived in 15 mins from Dublin, every estate had a green area where all the kids would play games, chalk the foot paths, there were football and basket ball nets everywhere. The kids would also walk to school on their own much younger than any of the kids I know here and it seemed much safer.

All the Irish kids I came across were very confident, non seemed shy. I have 3 DDs of different ages so mixed with different age groups.

Maybe it’s a Dublin thing but definitely not where we were living.

My pair are confident, attend Educate together which I believe has had a lot to do with their ability to self advocate.

They are happy to engage in debates, willing to take a turn talking at assembly etc. In my youth I was confident but am nearing 50 and it wasn't encouraged.

I find comfort that my children advocate for others and their school definitely has been instrumental in supporting them to find their voice and become engaged citizens.

Opposite to my experience where Irish children are encouraged to dance sing perform and talk to adults confidently. A society with a lot of time for children in my opinion and so they seem to be growing up confident and sparky. I think it depends on parents and contexts... but England isn't always a haven of wonderfulness. Plenty of schools with children not so happy to shine in assemblies. I do agree Irish children seem to play more without screens but again may just be the ones I know!

I visit home regularly and there does seem like so many wonderful opportunities for playing outdoor safely in Ireland. I go for a walk sometimes when mine are in bed and was surprised to see the local kids still playing outside with their neighbours as I did many years ago. So idyllic and not possible in London.

Also I think in both UK and Ireland (and many other countries too) parents these days know a bit more about best child-rearing practices and this is probably creating more confident children/young people regardless of where they grow up which is great.

Ah that is lovely to hear that this type of parenting is not so common anymore, perhaps it’s where my family live then, they seem to still have a ‘don’t go getting ideas above your station’ approach. Sad really. I think if we move back we would like to live near an educate together and try get our children in there, far more progressive and I love that they encourage debates/ self advocacy. I really do think there’s something magical about Dublin and the outskirts, being so close to the sea and mountains while also living in a pretty diverse/ cosmopolitan city would be a great place to raise children. I miss being able to walk everywhere and not tubing everywhere but maybe it’s a grass is greener thing too.

London kids in general are very sophisticated compared to other parts of the UK (and Ireland) So much available on their doorstep.

You're comparing apples and pears.

I'm from England (Stoke), a very working class area and there's a strong sense of 'not getting above your station' there still.

Completely different in the Home Counties and London so perhaps a working class thing (or could be an Irish thing passed down generations as lots of families in Liverpool and Stoke descend from Irish people who escaped the famine, mine included).

I'll preface this by saying: 1. What do I know? This is highly anecdotal and 2. My parenting angst is often based on not being the weird parental pair my own parents were. I currently live in London.

Whenever I visit relatives in Ireland I'm struck by how polite and reasonably well adjusted the Irish children are. My 'reasonably' qualification is that I often know some of the ups and downs they face.

Like many children today, so much of life is spent indoors and the ones I encounter don't seem significantly different. However, they do have outdoor things to do and there seem to be good sporting and fitness avenues spinning off from school etc.

Though a bit shy, once they feel comfortable with you they can have sound conversations for their age.

After reading that I'm surprised that you would want to raise children here.

Tbh you can't compare the whole of Ireland to your family, everyone raises their children differently and that's every Country, not just Ireland.

I've raised 5 children in Dublin and I can definitely tell you that my children went to parks, museums, theatre, cafes etc. OK back in the early days there wasn't a ton of things to do but we did what was available at the time. It's improved a great deal and there's more to do.

Dublin is small, there's only so much we can build in it, we're not like London with many theatre's with big shows on, we don't have endless streets with big huge shops, there's plenty of parks, some you have to drive to but most areas have something to offer.

I live right beside the mountains and tbh there's only so many times you can stand and watch bogs and fields and sheep, it's not exactly the most exciting thing to do.

My children grew to be confident, OK so they're not dancing down Grafton street belting out Molly Malone but they can hold eye contact and a conversation, they've done well in their education and they're kind, loving and caring.

If kids are interrupting an adult conversation they'd be told go play or if they're screaming like banshees they'll be shushed. Yes, there are the parents who let their kids be center of attention all the time and up in your face all cocky, but you get that in every Country.

We don't stick our kids in screens all the time, just like parents in the UK, we use them when necessary.

@wheresmymojo yes I think it might be a working class thing unfortunately and I still feel like I struggle to fit in or understand the differences between where I came from and where I live now.

@Wendysfriend it’s not just my immediate family but my dh family too and my nieces/ nephews as well as his, plus other family friends and relatives.. so something is going on there.

I was shocked to hear my SIL tell her 3 year old to stop talking and to shut up because she had asked two questions in a row.. you just wouldn’t see that here amongst our friends, they would engage with their children and be happy to answer questions, any tantrums or nonsense wouldn’t really make them get to this level of irritation or at least they don’t show it. It must be the culture we grew up in and it’s unfortunately being passed down to the next generation in our families.

I’m glad the lack of confidence is not as widespread as I thought, when you work with children every day it makes you think about your own upbringing and how you want to raise your own children.

"I may just be comparing classes here as where I live is quite middle class and our families are very working class with little education themselves. "

I think that's essentially what's happening.

I live in a reasonably affluent part of Dublin and my experience is very different.

I am irish,living in Ireland. My son is In the park around 5 times a week and we both work full time...he is also in cafes,fun farms,restaurants,visiting family and friends. My parents are in their 70s and they are always down on the ground playing with him.

I think it might be your specific experience.

Definitely it's your family and the family you married in to. I have never heard a child here being told to stay quiet after asking a few questions. My son is an adult now but from the time he was able to stay awake long enough he was going out to eat at nice restaurants, visiting museums and lots of historical landmarks etc, I was a very young mother doing it without his father but with wonderful input from my family, he grew to be a child capable of speaking to any adult he met. I have nieces and nephews who are aged from toddler to teens and all are confident and chatty, attend drama, GAA, martial arts, days out with parents and other family members, a favourite recently was a visit to Connolly Barracks which my six year old nephew told me all about. Your post reads like you were raised in the 40' or 50's, my siblings and I grew up in the 60's and 70's in rural Ireland and certainly had different experiences than you.

So glad to hear this, sounds like Ireland really is a great place to raise children. I wanted to get as far away as possible when I was younger because we were so deprived but I’m seeing things differently these days, it seems likely that our families are quite sheltered/ uninterested, dh and I talk about it all the time how different it is when we visit them but I think if we moved we’d probably slip into a similar circle to where we are now in london with nice families and move far away from the nonsense mentality of where we grew up.

@Doggydarling I grew up in the 90s but grew up very poor with very chaotic parents and most of my friends growing up were much less well of than us. DH wasn’t poor but not far from it. It’s sad really but makes me grateful we escaped it.

anyway this wasn’t supposed to be a wow me post, I’m happy to hear so many peoples experience were different.

*woe

My parents are Irish. We were definitely brought up to be humble and we had more of a quiet confidence that has served us well. We were always taught the difference between a big ego and a strong one, especially by my grandparents who were also Irish. Personally I think we were raised with some wise values.

I do honestly think this is a class thing. The only people I ever saw speaking like that to their children were from the local council estate and one particular neighbouring family (Dublin southside).

I've seen the same in the US, with children treated as nuisances by certain classes of people with low levels of education, with the same results for the children. It's hard for them if they end up in school with middle class kids who have been brought up differently. There also tends to be a 'spare the rod, spoil the child' mentality in homes like this, so the kids are completely at sea when they are in a school setting where yelling and threatening are not the norm.

Yes this is what I found too when I lived in Dublin for part of the week and was considering bring my family over. I didn’t like it because we’re Indian origin and DH is from India which we visit a lot & kids need to be confident there. For me it was worth losing the potential of getting an EU passport.

There’s also a culture of children being seen as ‘getting in the way’ which is ridiculous for a country where abortion is only freely permitted up to 12 weeks. If you’re going to force women to have kids you should be welcoming them with open arms

It's funny, I was having a conversation with my mother on this very topic a few weeks ago. I was commenting on the confidence of my two nieces (7 & 9) and how they can walk into a room full of adults they've never met before and chat quite comfortably with everyone. And what a contrast I found it to be with my 1980s Irish self, where my recollection of being a child was of being quite shy initially around people I didn't know, especially a room full of adults. And that was the norm.

@Wenfy so I’m not imagining it then? was this in certain areas do you think or did it vary?

@mathanxiety its crazy isn’t it, when you speak to these children with respect you can tell they don’t know what to do with themselves.