Ireland's Eurovision disaster

[Abhannmor]

Wild Youth who are representing Ireland at the Eurovision song contest have sacked their creative director , Ian Banham. All over a Twitter exchange where he said male rapists should not be in women's prisons.

This is not going well for the cowardly cretins judging by the comments on their page. Now who can I support instead of these despicable rape apologists?

Poland maybe....

While i agree with much of your post I'm struggling with your claim that he has "deducated his life...continually and consistently" to spreading mistrust. From the above, two comments on two convicted rapists and one on Mulvaney (who is disturbing on many levels) Unless I've missed something? I hope I have because if that is all it takes most of Ireland is in line to lose their jobs. Out of interest, do you think his behaviour should be/would be actionable under proposed new Hate Speech laws?

This is the most exciting and interesting thing to have ever happened to this band, so that's something.

While i agree with much of your post I'm struggling with your claim that he has "deducated his life...continually and consistently" to spreading mistrust. From the above, two comments on two convicted rapists and one on Mulvaney (who is disturbing on many levels) Unless I've missed something? I hope I have because if that is all it takes most of Ireland is in line to lose their jobs. Out of interest, do you think his behaviour should be/would be actionable under proposed new Hate Speech laws?

You're right in that he isn't quite as obsessed as joining in the trans-bashing craze as much as say, JK Rowling, Glinaham(sp) or others that spend hours a day finding negative stories about trans people.

Of the examples listed on the thread (and there were more on the account before it went private)
1 was mocking a teenager who, while it raises eyebrows isn't hurting anyone.

1 was purposefully misgendering a well known transwoman who has been jeered at and driven in to hiding for advertising beer and sportswear which transwoman wear as well as natal women. She's not to my taste either, but the vitriol has been unbelievable, and this is part of it. She's not hurting anyone and the comment is rude and unnecessary.

1 was mocking a male person wearing a dress sitting on a chair. A dress which covers their body suitably. They're not hurting anyone.

1 was jeering at Eurovision, where he was supposed to be working. I have clauses in my contract about social media too.

So, I suppose the pattern for me is punching down on people who are not hurting anyone or doing anything wrong. Say for example in Dylan's case, he would have known thousands of other people were calling her a man and sending hurtful messages. He chose to contribute. That's bullying. That's just being unpleasant mean and rude.

I don't know if it's a crime, I doubt he'll be charged, I don't think he should be. However I do think it very understandable that the band cut ties with him. They are well within their rights to do so with a person who so clearly holds different values.

Dylan is a man.

The rapist is also a man.

Please evidence the accusation that JK Rowling is "trans bashing". That's utter bollocks.

Don't know the full details but given it's Ireland if it's anything to do with the thug Barbie Kardashian then they are being ridiculously unreasonable.

Utter bullshit. You expect us to believe these pillocks spend their conscious/ sober / waking hours trawling through the tweets of their choreography teacher.

And then - months later - sack him for transphobia. Why are they now trying to hide behind Discord and RTÉ?

And their supporters have started wanging on about antivax or Ukraine because the 'transphobe' garbage isn't sticking. Wouldn't it be lovely if Ukraine won this year too though. I'm sure it's all fair and above board. 😂

Identifying obvious safeguarding flaws in self ID is not "targeting transpeople" or whatever. Either the law is flawed and creates a risk or it isn't and it doesn't. Please make arguments why "it isn't and it doesn't"
If the argument for "men never pretend to be something in order to be predators", then I give you the history of priests in the Catholic Church in Ireland.

Dylan Mulvaney is a gay male. His videos mock women. Its hateful. If he painted his face black and mocked black people, would you say he was black?
I really cant understand why people cant see him for the grifter he is… it’s ALL about the $$$

Ukraine obviously.

Dylan Mulvaney is a gay male. His videos mock women. Its hateful. If he painted his face black and mocked black people, would you say he was black?
I really cant understand why people cant see him for the grifter he is… it’s ALL about the $$$

She has had fairly major surgery on her face and has been taking hormones for a year. If it's grifting (which means what?) then it's certainly dedicated! She is also not mocking women. She has always been very flamboyant, over the top, camp. Not exactly a surprise that it's still her personality now. I mean, I'm not a big fan, I don't enjoy her content. But she certainly does not deserve the bullying, people threatening to shoot her, or any of the great big pile on she's receiving now. It's really easy just to not look at her channel.

It's really not the same as blackface, so don't do that. She has noticed that MOST women have long hair, MOST women have soft faces, MOST women wear makeup at least sometimes, MOST people who wear dresses/pink/pretty things are women. So if she wants all that, does it not make sense that she thinks, 'maybe I'm a woman'? If you want to walk like a duck and look like a duck, maybe you're a duck.

Is it right that gender is so engrained in all of these things? No! I'm politically agender myself. I don't shave my legs, I shave most of my head, I wear a lot of 'male' clothing. But you know what, I can't expect the whole world to suddenly change over night to make gender expectations a thing of the past. Besides, It's the queer community who are paving the way for people of all sexes, sizes and genders to wear what they want.

Because what's the alternative? Do you think that the world would be alright with your average bloke wearing 'women's clothes' and make up without changing anything about themselves? 'Yes!' you cry! Yet the minute they show a bit of skin, they're 'filthy perverts' (shouted at a friend of mine wearing a mini skirt with his hairy legs!).

Only this year there was a thread on here about a little boy who wanted to wear a skirt. Perfect opportunity to say, 'sure, you're still a boy though.' Instead the OP was told it's a slippery slope, that she should just force him to wear trousers, that he'd be labelled weird. There's no winning with you guys.

So you're saying the only way to challenge gender stereotyping (I.e. gendered clothing) is to change sex? Women threw off gendered clothing years ago. Flappers were considered outrageous for cuttng their hair and embracing androgyny and that was in the 1920s! And I'm sorry but your self portrait describes nearly everyone I knew thirty years ago in college in Galway. Shaved heads, blue hair, doctor martin boots, grunge...Its all already been done. And bar the shaved head it could describe me now!
I completely agree that men are and continue to be more conventional with regard to gendered clothing and I am sorry your friend experienced that. But to suggest that the only way he or indeed DM can get to wear a skirt and makeup is to declare themselves women or queer is very very sad. For society to change people need to step out of boxes, not into them.

Firstly, let's get one thing straight, trans people are very aware of what sex they are, ok? That's what the terms AFAB and AMAB are about. A much more respectful way to talk about ones sex without calling someone a man when they would find that disrespectful. Also, when did I say anything about blue hair? Not me. DMs sometimes, but not grungy. I'm quite well put together!

Woman have thrown off some gendered clothing. Most women still have long hair, fitted clothes, wear make up, or view body hair as unhygienic or unsexy. I can't tell you how many dirty looks I've gotten with my hairy pits! The only people I've got respect from are the queer, bleeding hearted liberal wokey friends I know.

Queer people (which is a very wide umbrella) and the blue haired, woke brigade you no doubt hate, are the ones stepping out of the boxes. Like I said, I 'identify' (not crazy about the term either) as an agender female, she/her/whatever, call myself woman. I can talk about rejecting gender with my many many trans and nb friends.

You know what the general vibe is? People rejecting the gendered expectations being put upon them, increasingly without medical intervention because the woke message is, 'be who you are'. So you can have any feelings about gender you want. Absolutely. I feel we somewhat agree. Please believe me, from this side of the bubble, that gender expectations are being smashed. For regular gendered people too. What's more important, that people can dress how they like no matter their sex, or that people use exactly the language you want?

I do my best to remember people's wishes about how they wish to be addressed. I lean in with respect, and I've managed to have some pretty GC conversations. GC, without assuming trans and nb people have some evil agenda. They don't.

I agree it's very sad. But that's the reality. And we're not going to get there when we have people rushing to the trans widows thread whenever someone's husband wears a thong, or calling drag queens (who are largely GNC men) groomers and peados.

I'm sorry for the ramble. But I'm worried. I'm really worried, especially seeing the hateful and violent messages being sent to Dylan on the back of innocent instagram posts, the laws being passed, the general rhetoric in government... I don't know what to say. I don't know how to convince you that trans people and GNC people are worthy of respect and protection. They're not out to get you. This whole gender thing is quite new. Is it any wonder people are thinking different things? Using different language? Anyway, I'm out.

I don't hate transpeople. I don't hate any category of people. I respect your right to to live your life in any way you choose and I'm sorry you feel you cannot discuss the issue further.
I accept that there is a lot of hate online. I accept that there are lot of gobshites that shout obsenities at people in public. I do not accept that these are a reflection of people's attitudes in general.
My interest in this subject comes from the fact that I have a 5 year old daughter growing up with less rights than I did. As a child AFAB, she no longer has the right to spaces traditionally allocated for people AFAB. The directive from the Department of Education that stipulates all new builds contain gender neutral bathrooms means this will apply from childhood. She plays football. She no longer has the right to play football with other AFAB people only. That category of sport no longer exists. These are fairly major societal changes. You would probably argue that these changes are benificial for her and other people AFAB but I am struggling to see how. If I were to be convinced I would fully support them. My concerns come from a place of love for her; not from hate. I hope you can see the difference.

@Link3 surely your daughter is OFAB? Observed Female at Birth.

nobody is assigned a sex.

No. My daughter is a girl. No more no less. The use of that term seemed important to the poster.

It's really not the same as blackface, so don't do that. She has noticed that MOST women have long hair, MOST women have soft faces, MOST women wear makeup at least sometimes, MOST people who wear dresses/pink/pretty things are women. So if she wants all that, does it not make sense that she thinks, 'maybe I'm a woman'? If you want to walk like a duck and look like a duck, maybe you're a duck.

Most women are not scared of insects and don't go hiking in high heels.

Most women do not claim to be 6 year old girls.

Most women don't have a bulge in their pants and want to normalise it.

Most women don't refer to their vagina as a 'Barbie pouch'.

Most women do not cry three times a day.

Most women don't shave their faces.

Most women don't exercise by prancing around in a bra and leggings.

He is preforming a vile parody of women, he is not a woman or a girl.

Most women still have long hair, fitted clothes, wear make up, or view body hair as unhygienic or unsexy

What, on the planet?

Or just in your hegemonic cultural bubble?

While I know plenty of women with long hair (mostly younger than me), I genuinely don't know any woman who favours pink

@Ladybrrrd how old are you? I’m not expressing an opinion on trans issues but I am surprised you would think that any woman not wearing fitted clothes or with body hair is being shown the way by the new “woke” culture. The trend for removing body hair for example has massively increased during my life time (I’m not that young) from au naturel 70s bushes to it now seeming unacceptable for young women to have any hair there at all.