Shooting of police officer in NI

[Chickenkeev]

I've been listening to news of this all morning on the radio (rte). I was horrified to hear about it and that police are working mainly on the theory that dissident republicans are responsible. I was quite surprised (stunned if I'm honest) that it doesn't seemed to have appeared on any threads on MN, that I can see anyway. Surely it's of national importance to the UK as well as here?

I was pleased to see how much coverage it's had on the BBC, it was the top story on the R4 news at lunchtime yesterday. I don't think a lack of comment on the main MN boards indicates general lack of interest.

I wonder if those arrested are a quick roundup of the usual suspects and they'll all end up released.

Is this a bit of an own goal from a PR perspective? Choosing that time and location for the attack has garnered so much condemnation.

I went to Belfast for a conference last year. First visit to Northern Ireland.

I can't wait to go back. Loved it! Want to go for longer, bring my kids and also travel outside the city.

But I was SHOCKED at how little I knew about the history and daily life in the city.

I was incensed that (at least pre-Brexit) mainland high schools would go on trips to Berlin to see the Berlin Wall. Everybody knows about the Berlin Wall. Spent a fair amount of time learning about it. How many mainland Brits who haven't been to Belfast know it's got a fecking big wall dividing it with gates - proper huge gates, one hydrolic(!) - that shut across the roads every evening and at least one over weekends?

I am someone who reads a lot of news from a wide variety of sources - ie including ones I don't agree with politically - and have some for years. I knew next to nothing about Belfast, a British city!

And what felt almost tragic was the clear connection so many in NI feel with the mainland, yet the mainland barely notices them. We simply don't learn about NI at school and I don't even know how/if it's studied at British universities. I studied Modern Middle Eastern history at university and I know all about the Palestinian situation. There were some Irish and northern Irish students on that course. Once did a wee tour of Belfast it was blatantly clear where their interest had come from.

I'm not surprised there aren't threads - plural - about the attempted execution in NI, because it's a place that's simply off a lot of mainland Brits' radars. They'll have heard it on the news and mentally filed it as "awful", "worrying" and, critically, "over there". Not that this just happened in their own country. I'm not criticising anybody - I think there are complex reasons (mostly not ok) why we aren't more informed - it's more of a sad fact.

I think that every mainland high school pupil should have a trip to Belfast to visit the Peace Wall (interestingly named) as part of a proper tour. That should be far more important than trips to the Louvre, Berlin or ridiculously expensive ski trips. In fact, it's a good time to start as there's not enough guaranteed snow for ski trips now!

I'm so sorry for the children present at the shooting. It's horrific to carry out an attempted execution but to do that in front of children is unspeakable. I hope that those caught are charged with attempted murder AND something that reflects the crime they committed against the children and other bystanders.

And I wish the policeman a full recovery.

@daretodenim, as discussed further up the thread, Britain is not the ‘mainland’ of Ireland. Surely you can see it’s a problematic term in this context?

as discussed further up the thread, Britain is not the ‘mainland’ of Ireland. Surely you can see it’s a problematic term in this context?

I think folk maybe don't realise this is the Craicnet board so are writing from a UK perspective rather than Ireland. I just saw it appear on the Active boards.

I agree to a point but the fact it's happened at all is awful. Strange piece on rte right now talking about the 'old' IRA which imo is unbelievably tone deaf.

And wtf is going on with the assembly? I've ignored it because moany NI politicians but am as guilty as those i'm goving out about.

Please educate yourself further. For a start, Belfast isn’t a British city. As for your use of the word ‘mainland’……your ignorance is shining through.

The NI peace treaty is at stake if they bodge up the brexit agreement. It's very worrying

I'm English. It is shocking. I'm constantly surprised by how short some people's memories are- I'm late 30s and there were awful things happening when I was a teenager. Surely all the politicians in Westminster remember?

Obviously things were much worse in NI, but violence was in English cities too. So even from a selfish point of view why don't English people speak about it?

Please educate yourself further. For a start, Belfast isn’t a British city. As for your use of the word ‘mainland’……your ignorance is shining through.

I think I've been quite clear about my ignorance! I've hardly become an expert with in-depth knowledge after a single trip to Belfast! Ignorance was kind of the point of my post.

"Mainland" was a word used to me in Belfast by people I met there (born and bred). I have no idea of exactly the problem behind it. I was just repeating something that I thought sounded a helpful/easy distinction. I've never actually used the word myself to refer to the island of Scotland, England and Wales, because I don't talk about these things to anyone. But it was definitely referred to that way more than once on my visit.

Genuinely though, I didn't mean to upset or offend anybody. I just saw a post in active and replied.

I am more than willing to "educate myself". I actually spent some time after my visit trying to. The problem is there's both a lot and a little. When you realise your ignorance about something - total ignorance - than it's hard to know which sources are reliable, who's really behind those sources etc. Does it matter that the uncle of author X was a politician, or tied to a certain group? Or does it make no difference, because that author has broken away from his family/never had contact with the uncle etc? It's really complicated when you're starting at only slightly above ground zero.

When I studied Modern Middle Eastern history I at least had a background told from the British side. From that I could view the other side and then draw my own conclusions. Learning about the modern history of the island that contains Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland (I hope I'm wording that ok) I have no background. At all.

So while people like me are ignorant, uneducated etc, please understand that becoming properly informed isn't as easy as visiting a place (as I've demonstrated) or reading a few books or websites. You need to understand sources too and that's really complicated.

I'm sorry I've upset people. I wish you all a good morning.

I get that. I lived in England for a very long time, was taken aback at the ignorance of all things Irish, and I think any opportunity to inform is important. I’d certainly want to know if I were using problematic/tendentious language, or language whose implications I hadn’t considered, if I were in the OP’s shoes.

Awful for that PSNI officer and his family. Traumatic for all at the scene.
Wishing him a speedy recovery.
I truly hope it doesn't "all kick off again" in NI.
That "Cats in the Cradle"
ad was powerful.
The song was written by Harry Chapin, an amazing songwriter who died far too young.
I'm not sure who was singing it in the ad.

I think the issue is that NI is divided, so some people are very happy to consider themselves British and to refer to GB as the mainland (and wouldn't in fact consider anything else). You probably met some of them.
To others being thought of as British and descibed as living off the 'mainland' is red rag to a bull sort of stuff.
And there are a mix of opinions in between.
So it's complicated as you can see. It's great that you're getting to know the place and learning about it too.
The vast, vast majority want peace.
Thinking of that brave policeman and his family.

Sorry, we absolutely aren’t back there, yet. The DUP staying out of the assembly are doing more to stoke sectarian tension (won’t serve under a catholic FM) than dissidents ever could. You aren’t in NI are you?

The DUP won’t be deputy first minister to a catholic (Sinn Fein are now the biggest party) but even they realise that being so overtly bigoted won’t fly any more and have cobbled together some b@ll@cks about the NI Protocol. If you do even a quick google you can find all the comments of senior DUP people backing the protocol to the hilt before guess what, a fenian was going to be in charge and then it became totally unacceptable. The DUP set down seven tests that had to be fulfilled by any negotiations and amendments to the protocol but now those seem to have been agreed they have broadened that again to add more pre-conditions including regarding the ECJ. The DUP want to scupper the chance of there being a Sinn Fein first minister because they are anti anything Irish but particularly now as it’s 25 years since the good Friday agreement and the DUP were famously anti that accord. They don’t want Sinn Fein to be applauded nationally and internationally for their transformation (btw I am not a Sinn Fein voter). People in GB and the republic should be much more interested in the DUP’s continuing basic bigotry, but as usual it’s only northern Nationalists and catholic people who have to deal with it so no one gets too het up about it 🤷‍♀️

There's a clip of the James O'Brien radio show on LBC where a woman is talking about the threat to scrap the Protocol.

She is a vet and says she now has anxiety attacks crossing the border - imaging a return of the Troubles. That was before this awful attempted murder iirc.

It's all just a game to Johnson and the rest of the far right nutbags. And they'll be quietly celebrating. In their hearts they yearn for the drone of the helicopters , the reassuring presence of the observation towers , the bombs and tit for tat killings.

But they will wash their hands. Nothing to do with us. As Johnson's father said : ' Let the Irish kill each other '.

I'm from NI (but just moved away a few weeks ago for work reasons, again), and some people here know me in RL. My heart sank when I heard the news, but I'm sorry to say I was not shocked. It's attempted murder, there is no excuse.

I'm from a strongly Unionist area, religion is an important part of my life, so I'll only comment on my lived experience and my own community. I'd consider things "better" than at any time in my living memory, and the vast vast majority of people want peace. But let's be realistic: sectarianism is still very alive and well where I'm from.

This is the most English thing re NI I’ve ever read. Mainly because they don’t gaf about people being murdered in the northern state and never will? Much the same as the Westminster government didn’t gaf about the anti catholic state unionists had been allowed to construct in N. I. for nigh on 50 years until they were internationally embarrassed by the police force batoning civil rights protestors off the streets and mobs were burning down streets of catholic houses. They don’t gaf. Northern Ireland doesn’t win elections in England

Loving your username @DonnaHadDee .

Some interesting survey stats here about which issues are most important to who. twitter.com/BelTel/status/1629070129702002689?s=20

Sorry, that's the link to the Twitter post. Here's the article: www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/health-service-and-economy-more-important-to-voters-than-protocol-survey/1043101167.html

I love that name too Donna. Just before Covid I visited Belfast and did that taxi tour. The driver stated upfront that he was a nationalist. As he described the burnings and shootings I started to wonder if he was a bit of a diehard. But I was too timid to ask.

Not so my son, who said before we parted : ' Do you support the Peace Process?'
' 100% , it's our only hope !' he replied with great passion. ' You see those steel gates ? There's a new generation who don't want this stuff . They'll be gone in 25 years'

That cheered us up no end. My friend took the same tour and got a unionist cabbie btw. Same attitude. Then we have the likes of Michael Gove - the GFA is ' treason'.

‘As he described the burnings and shootings I started to wonder if he was a bit of a diehard.’ why did you assume he was a die hard for telling you what happened in the past?
Tories like Gove base a lot of their positions on N Ireland on entrenched anti Irish prejudice. The DUP did not support the GFA.

It was rather unworthy of me in retrospect. After all it was his own life too.

That same year I met a man from a unionist background, on holiday in Donegal. His father had been a Superintendent in the RUC. Very worried about the DUPs Brexit policy. He thought some federal solution would happen eventually.

I'm from a nationalist background but I think if we've learnt nothing else from Brexit we've learnt that a narrow Referendum win is Kryptonite. Like that taxi man said the GFA is our only chance. We must make it work.

I was shocked to hear this, am in England.

Waving to @DonnaHadDee who I think might be from where I grew up.

We aren't back at the very worst times but there are enough people who are pigheaded and stuck in their own misery to prevent a fully functioning society and government. It's hard to explain to someone who hasn't lived there. Most of us don't give a hoots about religious preference or political views - we want a solid future.

Either way this is a show of absolutely scary proportions. Attempted murder of a serving police officer at a community event with small children. These guys don't care about right and wrong, they are just making a statement.

And in the meantime the main decisions about the future are being made by people who frankly don't understand enough to be trusted to make the right call.