Dna and ethnicity

[Jaslima]

Ok, i know this is going to sound really sad :-D

I'm Northern Irish, have Irish parents, Irish grandparents, Irish ancestry as far as I knew etc but there has always just been something about my mother's side that I just couldn't put my finger on. It's a certain look: dark eyes, dark hair, certain features...not tanned skin but definitely a certain vibe that made me think maybe our distant ancestors weren't European. I always suspected Middle Eastern but had no way of knowing. This was a lineage I invented in my head.

I remember being about 20 and looking in the mirror and thinking 'I just know there is something in my blood from somewhere far away'. My husband used to joke that people from Arabic countries were 'my people'. All my friends knew my crazy theory.

Anyway, at Christmas I decided to do one of those dna tests to see if we had any Middle Eastern heritage. I know they are based on an algorithm, aren't an exact science and can be misleading but the kit was on sale so I did it.

Anyway, the results came in yesterday. It was exactly what I thought.

93% of the Ethnic group of the Irish/Northern Irish/Scottish/English/Welsh (as expected),

5%Finnish (makes sense being so close to the above).

1.2% West Asian and 0.8 Middle Eastern! I can't tell you how not surprised I was by this. In my heart it made perfect sense.

I only know one Irish person who did a dna test and hers was pretty much 100% British Isles, more or less. I told someone about my results and she said that everyone probably everyone has some Middle Eastern dna somewhere. I felt a bit deflated!

Is this true? Again I know that these are just estimates and should be taken with a pinch of salt. I just can't help thinking how strange it is that my totally unfounded hunch that my family has Middle Eastern roots was backed up by the DNA test, even if it was just 0.8%. I feel like this has kind of validated a feeling I've had all my life but am wondering what the chances are that it's not true.

If you got your dna done, what did it come back with? Did it line up with any research you did? I find it all insanely interesting!

Same here about the features

Cheddar Man has been debunked.

what do you mean by "debunked" - cheddar man exists!

I do actually have quite a lot of privileged access to a lot of the information related to Cheddar man, which is very highly restricted, for legal reasons

Sure, Jan.

no idea what you are on about, but clearly you have nothing of any substance to contribute, so not continuing any further with this interaction

The DNA tests from some sites eg Ancestry cannot be accurate because some countries ie France have blocked these companies as this sort of DNA testing is banned there.

I guess lots of people living in Britain have French ancestry.

LOL

I got 55% English

31.1% Irish, Scottish, and Welsh

10% Iberian

3% Finnish, I thought miune was boring so I know how you feel.

It was actually 24% Irish, rest English and Scottish 3% Scandinavian.
so British through despite a great uncle in the past claiming he’d traced the line to show Viking inheritance🙄

I’m half East Asian. By ‘East Asian eyes’ do you mean mono lids? I don’t have this type of eye. Neither does my mum who is full. Apparently only 50% of Asians (I assume East Asian as I found US websites, but they don’t mention countries when I quickly looked online) have mono lids. I’ve seen Western people with mono lids. Not sure what you mean about the cheekbones? I personally wouldn’t dwell on a match of 2% or less.

Yes you do. Your agenda is insidious but naturally I can’t go into why for fear of the ban hammer. Your assertions and are nonsense and like many others from the Frankfurt School, are made to undermine the truth.

For me when I'm talking about eye shape and features it's my almond shaped eyes. I used to live in the Middle East and it was more common to see people with almond shaped eyes compared to in Ireland. I also felt that my quite full lips and high cheekbones weren't out of place there either. I have no East Asian (1.2 West!) dna from my results but my daughter has what I would call hooded eyelids, which she gets from her almost exclusively Irish father's side.

Agreed.
The tests from Ancestry etc are very limited and there's not enough understanding of what the ethnicity % actually means.
With my dads ancestry results, his high percentage of dna in common with people living in Connaught revealed a link to ancestors in the last 8-10 generations having lived there. Not that he had Connaught DNA!
Small percentages are really meaningless.

This has been so interesting! I've learned a lot. I'm going to take the results with a pinch of salt while simultaneously enjoying my 2%!

This is the part that is a little bit perplexing as almond shape eyes are not intrinsic to the Middle East, nor are high cheekbones or fuller lips. West Asian and Middle Eastern ethnicity is Caucasian, and combine a mix of a variety of ethnic groups inbetween, for example in Iran you will find certain provinces have populations with south east Asian features due to crossover with other regions. Furthermore ‘Middle eastern’ dna whatever that means is quite broad. Gulf Arabs descend from different regions and have a very different genetic makeup to Levantine Arabs.

Levantine Arabs can be blonde, ginger and anything inbetween. Gulf Arabs can be black, as well as lighter in skin and differing in feature. North Africans also can be blonde and blue eyed, or Black. There isn’t a single look.

I don’t think any of those features represent being Middle Eastern and can be commonly found across Europe and other parts of the world. As an ME person I find it slightly generalist, without trying to be one of those annoying ‘offended’ people about it.

I have the same features you have mentioned and it is far more ‘universal’ than specific. I get asked all of the time whether I am South American, Italian when in italy, Spanish when in Spain, even Eastern European by eastern europeans. They do not represent the Middle East at all. These features can be found all over.

As previously mentioned I doubt any of those features with such a tiny genetic % would have remained dominant enough to show up so far later on down the line, and is most likely connected to Anglo, or Welsh genetics of which those features can be more common.

well, exactly @AG247

This is all pseudo science being sold as some sort of fantasy fulfilling, it has no basis in any meaningful scientific facts. I have been trying to explain what it is, just a commercial company with a auto-gizmo pcr type machine and a spread sheet.

I tried to explain with a shoelace analogy upthread. You can start a spread sheet of shoelace length, colour, material, shape, texture, etc, then ask to see someones shoe laces, and then them they have a 10% match with the inhabitants of a particular hypothetical village 20 miles away...........

YOu can trace male line and female line DNA, but not like this

No, not specifically the mono lid. My mum's family have all been asked about their ethnic origins all through their lives. Those with green or gray eyes are assumed to be Russian. Those with brown eyes have been asked everything from Vietnamese to Kazakh. Agree 2% is a tiny percentage, but still.

Totally agree, tried to do the same vis a vis characteristics and features too!

I have 2% ‘West African’ dna according to one of these tests and while it COULD be somewhat true (due to having North African ancestry), I wouldn’t take it verbatim for all of the reasons you explained.

I also wouldn’t start making connections between my features and what I think a west African person looks like either; ‘that’s where I get my full lips from!’. If it were even true it would be far too trace to make an Impact on how I look, I don’t think any West Africans would be flattered by the generalisation, nor is it significant/any formal evidence.

I typed out a full reply and then deleted it by accident! So I'm sorry if it comes across as very clumsy but I'm typing it quickly.

I had just wanted to say that I do want to apologise if it appeared that I was being stereotypical in order to somehow approximate another culture. I've heard people with Irish ancestry say things like 'I put my bad temper down to my Irish ancestors' which always leaves me feeling a bit...right, OK...but we aren't all 'firey redheads' you know?

As I sadi before, I lived in the Middle East for some years and while I did come into contact with Gulf/Levantine/NA Arabic people with red/blond hair and blue or green eyes, it was so rare that I can count it on one hand. I admit, I am.making some generalisations but that was my general, genuine experience. It's why I always question Christmas cards where Jesus is portrayed as a blue eyed, blond haired baby. However, one of the nuns in my primary school told us that Jesus was probably ginger, so maybe she was more up on her Levantine DNA than me! Who knows.

I haven't lived in Ireland in a long time, but my kids are fully Irish on both sides. We get stopped all the time because of their pale, freckly skin, mousey hair and very blue eyes. People comment on it all the time, especially as my kids don't share the same colouring as most of the local kids. I always put it down to their Irish colouring, even though I know there is a great deal of diversity in Irish appearance. In Ireland they blend in a lot more with the other kids than they currently do where I am now. That is the spirit in which I was maybe generalising. It was literally based on my general observations and not trying to portray people outside of my own local ethnic group as exotic 'others'.

My son keeps banging his toys really loudly so I couldn't concentrate properly when writing this second attempt! But I hope my intentions are cleared up somewhat.

Also wanted to quickly say that I appreciate your input a lot. I couldn't figure out any kind of spreadsheet so am working your analogy out as and when i get some quiet time around my kids! I do have a question (genuine).

As my results came back roughly 93% Irish and the surrounding islands (shall we say, to avoid causing offence to anyone!) what does that mean in terms of the spreadsheet. I could have been anyone sending in a sample of my dna but they picked up that I'm almost 100% Irish. To me, that's accurate! I am! Can you explain it please so I understand? I know its an estimate, an algorithm, but would love to know more.

I think @Nimbostratus100 is pointing out that these companies aren't comparing your DNA to proven Irish 'markers' or whatever they're called. They're comparing your DNA to the current location of the DNA of the other customers.

Ahhhhh OK. Thank you.
Does that hold no weight at all?

Well I think that the vast majority of people have not moved to another continent. In the case of my DC I was able to work out where their (adopted) grandmother's people came from originally and more recently.

I'm sure there are better more scientific studies but we don't all have access to those. The fact that such a small percentage of people from a south Indian had both emigrated and requested a 123ancestry kit meant that the results did give an answer.

I think so called British and Irish dna is so mished and mashed at this point after generations of Irish people going to live in the UK that people may not get the answers to their specific question. I think adoptions used to be quite secret. a lot of people in the UK might believe that they have no Irish ancestry at all because they do not know that an antecedent was adopted and with the shaming and lack of support shown to pregnant Irish mothers before 1986 (when the EU made Ireland provide support to single mothers) the source of babies for adoptions included Ireland.

I paid a hundred euro and so did my brother. We weren't duped. He has a science degree, my daughter is doing one. We get it, it's not carved in stone and it's based on the dna of the addresses of the other customers but even so it does give some information.

I agree with the poster who says it started some interesting conversations! it's a clue! It's a bit of fun. I know that not everybody can afford to pay 100 euro for a bit of fun, but we've not all been duped. We don't all have access to better studies. Are these accurate studies advertised? Anyway, I think they've come down a lot in price. I saw two kits for 80 euro shortly after we bought ours ! Typical!

The BBC did a recreation of what Jesus would have looked like after talking to experts. They said black short curly hair, dark eyes and olive skin. The blonde hair Jesus was just European arrogance.

It's why I always question Christmas cards where Jesus is portrayed as a blue eyed, blond haired baby. However, one of the nuns in my primary school told us that Jesus was probably ginger, so maybe she was more up on her Levantine DNA than me! Who knows.

I think it's a bit odd that someone said Arabic people were 'your people' and you seem quite desperate to be mixed race, or have a jot or 'something else' in you despite not being raised within the culture you're referring to. All a bit fetishizing. Flame me if you wish.