Dna and ethnicity

[Jaslima]

Ok, i know this is going to sound really sad :-D

I'm Northern Irish, have Irish parents, Irish grandparents, Irish ancestry as far as I knew etc but there has always just been something about my mother's side that I just couldn't put my finger on. It's a certain look: dark eyes, dark hair, certain features...not tanned skin but definitely a certain vibe that made me think maybe our distant ancestors weren't European. I always suspected Middle Eastern but had no way of knowing. This was a lineage I invented in my head.

I remember being about 20 and looking in the mirror and thinking 'I just know there is something in my blood from somewhere far away'. My husband used to joke that people from Arabic countries were 'my people'. All my friends knew my crazy theory.

Anyway, at Christmas I decided to do one of those dna tests to see if we had any Middle Eastern heritage. I know they are based on an algorithm, aren't an exact science and can be misleading but the kit was on sale so I did it.

Anyway, the results came in yesterday. It was exactly what I thought.

93% of the Ethnic group of the Irish/Northern Irish/Scottish/English/Welsh (as expected),

5%Finnish (makes sense being so close to the above).

1.2% West Asian and 0.8 Middle Eastern! I can't tell you how not surprised I was by this. In my heart it made perfect sense.

I only know one Irish person who did a dna test and hers was pretty much 100% British Isles, more or less. I told someone about my results and she said that everyone probably everyone has some Middle Eastern dna somewhere. I felt a bit deflated!

Is this true? Again I know that these are just estimates and should be taken with a pinch of salt. I just can't help thinking how strange it is that my totally unfounded hunch that my family has Middle Eastern roots was backed up by the DNA test, even if it was just 0.8%. I feel like this has kind of validated a feeling I've had all my life but am wondering what the chances are that it's not true.

If you got your dna done, what did it come back with? Did it line up with any research you did? I find it all insanely interesting!

Also, my post sounds a bit like my life depends on me being of Arabic descent, but it doesn't! It was just the coolest result and then I thought oh maybe it's not true, which spoiled my buzz a bit!
But am of course very happy with my Irish heritage!

It’s actually not uncommon in NI due to the thousands of Spanish Armada survivors washing up there and settling down in the time of Queen Elizabeth I. At the time, most Spanish sailors were descended from the Berber colonisers who had started in the Saudi Arabian peninsula, conquered North Africa and then crossed the straits of Gibraltar and then invaded and colonised the entire Iberian peninsula from 700 AD on. In fact Queen Elizabeth I’s great grandmother was Queen Isabella of Spain who reconquered Spain, taking it back from the it’s Sultans and ending 700yrs of the Islamic Empire’s rule.

It’s similar to many English having Scandinavian DNA due to the Viking invaders & colonisers.

Wow. I knew about the Armada thing but didn't know the Saudi link. Thank you.

History is awesome. Here is a fairly short article on the rise of the Islamic Empire from the Arabian Penninsula outwards:
www.khanacademy.org/humanities/world-history/medieval-times/spread-of-islam/a/the-rise-of-islamic-empires-and-states

It was an advanced civilisation for the time period, tons of movement within it of merchants, colonists- and so of course sailors/sailing families.

I done a Dna test last year and came back as expected, Scots/Irish. Turns out though I have more Irish from my father's side than my mother's which was unexpected as I have lots of info on her Irish side but none on my father's. He did say that there had been rumours of Irish ancestry but I've so far been unsuccessful on this search.
Your dna can show up traces from ancestors from hundreds of years ago, so yes your results will be true and you've been lucky to inherit these. I have many Mc names In my family and they originate from Scandinavian countries but they don't always show up in your dna, which I was hoping for, though, like you I'm proud of my ancestry, but they're are definitely Scandinavians I there somewhere, I just need to keep digging.

I told someone about my results and she said that everyone probably everyone has some Middle Eastern dna somewhere

I don’t!

It’s true not all your ancestry will show in your DNA because the whole egg/sperm thing is a pic n mix of half of each parents’ DNA. That’s why full siblings will have different results on DNA tests.

I thought the Spanish Armada settlers story was mean to be bullshit? However, this post on Quora is interesting qr.ae/pvLzVt

Once upon a time, fadó is fadó arís, Ireland was populated by farming people who had what we might call Mediterranean complexions. These people’s ultimate origins were in western Anatolia (modern Turkey). With the increase in population following the invention of agriculture in the Fertile Crescent, their descendants migrated westward along the shores of the Mediterranean in search of new land. Some of them settled in Ireland about 6,000 years ago, where they thrived in a landscape and climate that was particularly well suited to the cultivation of crops. Their numbers grew exponentially and they developed a complex social culture—these are the folks who built Newgrange, among other things.

Meanwhile, far off on the Pontic Steppe (in and around modern Ukraine), there evolved a people whom modern scholars call the Yamnaya. The Yamnaya were nomadic herders and horse people, highly mobile as they sped across their native grasslands in wheeled carts and wagons. Around 4,900 years ago, some of the Yamnaya entered northern Europe and proceeded westward, overwhelming and assimilating various peoples and cultures that they met along the way. The Yamnaya and their descendants had a feature that gave them an evolutionary advantage in northern Europe: their pale skin allowed them to absorb vitamin D in a part of the world where sunlight is scarce for much of the year. Some of them also had the genetic mutation for blond hair.

Migrations of the Yamnaya and their descendants; dates are BC.

About 4,400 years ago, descendants of the Yamnaya arrived in Ireland, bringing a cultural package that included an Indo-European language and Bell Beaker/Bronze Age technology. The archaeological DNA record leaves no doubt that the Bronze Age settlers almost totally replaced the previous neolithic population. There are varying theories as to how this came about: perhaps the newcomers were carriers of infectious diseases to which the island peoples had no immunity; or perhaps the technologically superior Bronze Age folk massacred the existing male population while keeping some of the women alive for sex and breeding purposes.

But one way or another, the light-complexioned descendants of the Steppe people largely replaced the darker complexioned previous inhabitants. And that is how the Irish became white.

No the Armada isn’t BS. Not all the ships were ship wrecked, several deserted and had the local Irish send reports that they’d sank with all hands on board.

The prehistory you have posted isn’t bad, but #1 it is too long ago to show up in any DNA at 1% or higher and #2 the ethnicity labels of that DNA would be Irish, not Turkey, based on how the DNA tests are usually linked where your ancestors were from 200yrs ago to 1,500 yrs ago depending on the brand.

Interesting that Turkey came up as I'm 1.2% West Asian which is that are encompassing Turkey and Iran etc, that Persian region. Any other Irish get this?

Area

its a bit meaningless, go back 10 000 years, and all inhabitants of the British isles, ancestors of all current Brits, were black

The population did not become white because they bred with white invaders, they became white because there is almost no genetic change required, black and white being far closer genetically than male and female, and of course in the british climate white skin and blond hair, particularly in women and children, made breeding more successful

The celts never inhabited the British isles, they just inhabited the margins, and ruled from there, they were slightly darker, Mediterranean. The anglo-saxons were just basically a few boat loads of roman ex- auxiliaries, from a mixture of places, working as mercenaries.

Most people in the world have viking inheritance!

You clearly had a feeling, and that feeling was correct which must be so vindicating!

That said, with such a low % of ME ancestry, your colouring and looks are most likely totally unrelated to that trace DNA. 1% Dna represents one single relative possibly between 7-8 generations back. So your colouring is actually probably more likely related to your Irish/NI/Scot/Eng/Welsh than anything else. As we all know, the Welsh can also have similar features to those which you described.

For example, I am 1/2 ME and half Scottish and while the dark features definitely came out more heavily in me, I could bet my kids would not be as dark as i am, based on my husband’s genetics. Those kind of characteristics don’t carry as strongly as you think through multiple generations.

Either way, it’s interesting you had a feeling! There are plenty of native English/Welsh with similar colouring, though I agree this is probably not the case in NI. Which leads me to think there may have been a biological or psychological element that made you feel that way (not going on what anyone else has said to you!)

I have many Mc names In my family and they originate from Scandinavian countries.

I thought Mc names were Irish or Scottish @Iftheresawilltheresaway?

Course lots of Irish and Scottish people will have a small percentage of Scandinavian DNA anyway...pesky Vikings.

You are always told to ignore tiny percentages like that with DNA.

Both sides of mums family were Irish. my grandad had very dark hair, olive complexion and very dark eyes. My Nana was very dark haired when younger, but paler. Mum inherited the very dark Hair. But was pale and blue eyed. All mums sisters were dark haired. 2 have dark brown eyes etc.

My cousins on that side are generally the same. Olive skin, dark eyes, dark hair. My dad isn’t white. But some of my cousins skin is darker than mine. I have the dark hair and dark eyes but quite pale and have freckles.

My Nana has been dead for over 20 years, I recall her saying something about being called ‘black Irish’ which (Apparantly) is white Irish people, but with my Grandads colouring. Not people who are black and Irish. I was younger when she said this and never really thought about it to ask her before she died. I have no way to verify that’s what she was talking about. But I have heard the phrase used a few times, in adulthood, using it to refer to irish with olive skin, dark hair and dark eyes.

I too think Mc names are Irish - doesn't mac mean "son" in Irish ? @Marynotsocontrary

Yes I think so @LadyEloise1, mac is son in Gaelic too

I don't think it's typical for Irish people to have middle eastern ethnicity on these tests. It's likely you had an ancestor from that region about six or so generations back.

They are such small percentages. As far as I remember, the 2% Scandinavian was considered negligible on my DNA test. The rest were Irish, Scottish, and English.

My DNA test was mostly Irish and Scottish, but I had a bit of Spanish, Eastern European Jewish and Finnish DNA, along with a hit from Micronesia?! From doing my family tree I already knew about the Spanish and Jewish; I’m presuming the rest is from Vikings and sailors!

Yes, 1% and below are often “noise”. But OP had 2% from the ME/Asia region, so does have meaning imho.

Hi OP, I haven't done the test myself although have a fair idea based on my sister's which was (perhaps alarmingly) 98% WEST of Ireland, but with 2% Asian/eastern. When I lived in America in an area with a large Arab community, I was stopped so many times in supermarkets, beauty salons etc by Persian people telling me I looked just like a relative of theirs (pale, black hair, green eyes). My DH is very into ancient history and believes we haven't scratched the surface in terms of the migration of people between the continents. The expansion of the Mongol empire gives a good example of how far a nation can expand and recede in an area within a relatively short period. I can't answer your question, but I have the same suspicions myself!

Mc names tend to be thought that way but so many forget or don't know that the Orkney Islands for example were originally Norwegian and given to Scotland in a dowry. Isle of Skye is steeped in Norwegian ancestry. As you say, the Vikings