I'm beginning to think I can't stay in Ireland

[Cveg]

I know Covid will have made everywhere awful, but I moved here from Asia in 2019. I chose my location carefully a place I knew well. Honestly 2 years on, I hate the place I live and I feel like if I stay too much longer I will start to hate Ireland too. Its become so depressing and inward-looking. Noone can ever say anything at all to question NPHET, the government or any local public servants, some of whom have become like local overlords. I used to love it here (visited many many times and felt welcome) but now it feels like the place is telling me to go away. All you get on TV is stupid obsequious programmes like The Late Late and all this enforced collectivisation "WE're ALL x, WE're ALL y".
I'm so unhappy

@Cveg
I'm sorry you're feeling like this

I work in a hospital with people from all over the world and colleagues who haven't been able to see family and still can't, especially my Indian colleagues and they all feel awful at the moment.

Hopefully as restrictions ease things will get a bit better for everyone.

@Cveg

The mention of the Late Late really seems to have riled some people up. I know everyone will be having a very different experience but living here and being an outsider has been a bleak experience

I don't think anyone is riled up by the LLS, more it is such an easy thing to avoid if it is a thing that bugs you.

I do wonder if your sense of being an outsider is exacerbated by living in a rural village (though to be honest the last 15 months has been pretty bleak for many many people). That said, there is a long history of people (anecdotally) finding it hard to be accepted in some parts (and that's from people moving within Ireland). I'm sure there is as much anecdotal evidence of people moving and feeling welcome. Maybe you've been unlucky and moved to somewhere that isn't very welcoming of "outsiders".

If you want to leave Ireland you should but if you're upset at the idea of now hating Ireland maybe it is worth trying somewhere else in Ireland? You mentioned living in Dublin before. Would you like to live there again? Or are you just done? And that's ok if you are.

@Cveg

The mention of the Late Late really seems to have riled some people up. I know everyone will be having a very different experience but living here and being an outsider has been a bleak experience

It just seems like a stupid thing to get riled up about. It’s a tv programme which was once extremely influential. It’s entirely avoidable. It isn’t some kind of expression of the Voice of Ireland. It annoys a lot of people. It makes as little sense as me living in the UK and being unreasonably irritated by Newsnight, Peston, or Jonathan Ross.

I lived for years in London, very happily, then moved to a village in the Midlands, which was an insular, parochial, depressingly small-minded and xenophobic place where I was deeply unhappy, and never accepted, despite longterm genuine efforts to integrate over almost eight years, and having a child there — and I was used to the countryside, and grew up somewhere in rural Ireland with lots of thoroughly integrated foreigners. This was entirely different and much more aggressively anti-outsider. The anti-Irish micro-aggressions got worse after Brexit, and for this and other reasons we decided to leave.

But it is what it is. It was, as with your case, a mismatch of person and environment. I don’t think there’s any point in railing about NPHET or lack of dissent or the Late Late Show any more than I saw Brexit or Boris Johnson or the weird, gung -ho British exceptionalism/anti-Europe, anti-immigration stuff as a personal affront. The place wasn’t working for me any more, so we left.

OP I do feel for you. You do sound very depressed and if your only friend is someone that is experiencing depression then I can see how it might be hard to see a way out of it.

As someone mentioned rural West Cork isn’t Dublin of your childhood. West Cork is full of people who have settled and integrated. Are there any facegroups for newly arrived people (relatively) close to you ? Or expat groups?

What are the things that bring you joy? Can you try and integrate those into your day? (Speak to family overseas/walk by the sea/care for an animal). You sound desperately lacking in connections right now (understandably).

Have you managed to link with a therapist- possibly a therapist who works with other modalities (psychotherapy for instance). Your (valid to you) expression that Ireland is rejecting you makes me wonder what you were ‘expecting’ from Ireland - rekindling family links from long ago/ closer neighbourly links etc. It might be worth exploring these with a therapist. Also a chat with your GP wouldn’t go astray. At least we can get GP appointments fairly quickly.

Emigrating/immigrating anywhere is a process that takes a long time. I moved back from the U.K. with family in tow and it has taken me a few years to establish a new network and that’s with the benefit of working, knowing some folk already, having children. You’ve arrived at the worst time in recent history to do any of the usual steps that you need to take to establish yourself. It has paused a process that would have taken time anyway. My English friends tell me it has been hard at times to establish oneself without a close family to slot into as Ireland is very family orientated and if you don’t have that you can feel like the outsider looking in. It does take a while to get to grips with the culture.

I do agree with you that so much of the NPHET/RTÉ Covid conversation has ignored people separated from their loved ones overseas.

I hope you are able to find some happiness 💐

I've lived all over the world and have zero problems making friends but have found rural Northern Ireland the most difficult place to integrate. People are irritated because no-one likes to have their home country criticised ( unless by themselves). I sympathise OP. The TV thing is just a symbol of your distress. I think you need to address the depression first and then see about moving somewhere more familiar.

I left Ireland, twice actually, for another place. First time I left NI for London, second time I left Cork for Australia. Both were good moves for me, much as I love Ireland and my friends and family there, it was never the place for me. Maybe you're the same. If you aren't happy, I highly recommend giving somewhere else a go. I couldn't be happier now, and have never even been homesick, although I do miss my mum.

OP I don't live in Ireland though spent 2 years there when the children were small.

I can well imagine what attitude you are talking about. If I consider the idea that we might have been stuck there (despite loving Dublin) I'd be going mad too.

Our friends who live out in the country and are in their 30s have become so uptight about covid and distances you can travel and the vaccines. I reckon it would be better in the city.

Jesus op you live in the back of beyond. If your vaccine is estimated 1st of Aug you must be late 20s/30s? Most young people leg it out of those areas. Being from Dublin myself I couldn't live that rural. Just don't watch those programmes, I haven't watched the LLS in years. Depressing news bulletins and obsessive TV reports are world wide.

Now that interconty travel has opened up again get on the trains and check out the cities. We cannot wait to get out of this shitshow. There are going to be places coming up for rent in Dublin or Cork City now that a lot moved back to the country temporarily. See your GP for help and just move away from there

I totally get you. Having lived in a few countries previously, it's always hard moving 'home' or to a country you thought you resonated with. Rose tinted glasses really are a thing and it's not until you move, that you realise it. No advice I'm afraid, just know that you're not alone.

I'm putting an exit plan in motion. I just wonder whether I'll ever be able to feel the same way about the place again. I used to love coming here for a weekend but maybe I never saw it for what it was. Or maybe when the dust settles the sanctimonious ones, having had their moment in the sun, will retreat and it will be bearable again.
I really do think Ireland needs to be aware of itself as a society; it is all well and good being family-oriented but honestly the degree of conformist, this weird thing about one person says something positive about a public figure then everyone else piles in to reinforce it, as if not to do so is to expose yourself as a different thinker, the blind eye turned to rampant societal alcoholism, the esteem in which priests still seem to be held, the thing about going on and on about how you've a brother working in Toronto as if that automatically makes you open-minded, the strange, strange interest in the ethnic and work background of people "buying the house up the road", the way mental health is still ignored despite it obviously being in crisis the abysmal politicians, the whole secrecy thing ("here take this bag (to cover some cutlery I was lent) you don't want people knowing your business)). I feel like writing a book about it all

Wishing you well, Cveg. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. It was a difficult time to make such a move. It was hard enough for people already settled in their lives, goodness knows, and it has taken its toll on people. Hopefully there are brighter days ahead

@Cveg

I'm putting an exit plan in motion. I just wonder whether I'll ever be able to feel the same way about the place again. I used to love coming here for a weekend but maybe I never saw it for what it was. Or maybe when the dust settles the sanctimonious ones, having had their moment in the sun, will retreat and it will be bearable again. I really do think Ireland needs to be aware of itself as a society; it is all well and good being family-oriented but honestly the degree of conformist, this weird thing about one person says something positive about a public figure then everyone else piles in to reinforce it, as if not to do so is to expose yourself as a different thinker, the blind eye turned to rampant societal alcoholism, the esteem in which priests still seem to be held, the thing about going on and on about how you've a brother working in Toronto as if that automatically makes you open-minded, the strange, strange interest in the ethnic and work background of people "buying the house up the road", the way mental health is still ignored despite it obviously being in crisis the abysmal politicians, the whole secrecy thing ("here take this bag (to cover some cutlery I was lent) you don't want people knowing your business)). I feel like writing a book about it all

Honestly, OP, I don't know what you want from this thread. Like everyone, I'm sorry you had a miserable time, but I don't see what the point is in starting a thread to rant and claim that Ireland 'needs to be aware of itself as a society' because your weekend tourist ideas about a particular part of the country have been spoilt by living there during a pandemic, when everyone had a miserable time.

Having just come from eight years in a village in England, I can assure you that the level of conformity, closed-mindedness and hostility to foreigners there surpassed anything I have ever encountered living in various parts of rural Cork, Galway and Mayo, and while I'd left before lockdown, people I'm still in touch with there painted a frankly disturbing picture of the parish council patrolling with whistles, neighbours timing one another's time out of the house and phoning the report lines as a way of settling old scores, and policing the whole clapping for the NHS thing.

Meanwhile my friends in Paris had to bring with them a paper copy of a form saying why they needed to leave the house every time they did, and were subject to a curfew, which, they say, had police far more likely to stop and question non-white people out 'after hours'. Friends in central Madrid (with two primary school age children in a small flat with no outdoor space) were not allowed to leave their homes at all in the first lockdown.

Which is not to minimise or deny your own experience in rural Ireland, just to say that I think Covid has been miserable everywhere.

I agree with you OP, it's why I emigrated.

It sounds like the location is not a good match for you. I don't recognise a lot of what you're saying (no idea who our local priests are, let alone holding them in esteem), have heard much criticism of Tony Holohan and haven't watched the LLS in years. We occasionally turn on Claire Byrne in the hope of seeing one of her ridiculous simulations that we can then take the piss out of for days. I don't even like the toy show and have no interest in GAA either so I'm surprised my citizenship hasn't been revoked.
I think when we are used to a country it's easier to shrug off and ignore the things that we don't identify with, but when we are a newcomer they take on more significance and we tend to see them as being representative of that country.
I really feel for anyone with mental health problems over the last year, and coupling that with the isolation and all the usual challenges of moving country, it must be extremely difficult and you have my sympathy.
Perhaps if you focus on your mental health for a while and when you are feeling better it will be easier to see what your next move should be.

But who cares whether you ever feel the same about it? Why does it matter? You lived somewhere and didn't like it. You're young and mobile. Just move and get on with your life and stop torturing yourself about some dream that didn't work out.

Like another poster, I don't know what you want to get out of this thread.

Get a bit of paper, write down all the shit you feel about Ireland, scrumple it up, bin it. Move on. Stop wasting your life licking your wounds.

What you’ve described is how I’ve always thought Ireland was. Religious, patriarchal, close communities.
If you don’t want to be there, leave (as you’re planning to do).
I’m sorry you’re hurting, but if you used to go for weekends, you must’ve experienced some of what you loathe now?
Good luck to you.

OP, I don't know if anyone told you this or not but it's not actually obligatory to watch the Late Late in Ireland. I find it irritating and therefore haven't watched it in years

I am sorry you feel bad but I don't understand your gripe with the country. Sure it's not perfect, but where the hell is?

@turkeyboots what the buggering hell does 'Catholic flavored' mean? The country gets more secular by the year thankfully

Catholic flavour = FHC bouncy castles and the collection. We still have lots of semi obsevered traditions which are increasingly non religious. But still make us look super religious to others.

My brother maintains irsh people abroad are treated better by foreign countries than their own govt. Treats them especially in this pandemic. Pariahs for going home even while vaccinated fully by the irish power crazy Govt. And Nphet
I hear ya OP

@Radyward

My brother maintains irsh people abroad are treated better by foreign countries than their own govt. Treats them especially in this pandemic. Pariahs for going home even while vaccinated fully by the irish power crazy Govt. And Nphet I hear ya OP

Why would your brother have special insight? He can maintain what he likes but that is the weirdest generalisation ever. What countries is he including? China? India? Any number of European countries where there were curfews? I guess he's including Irish people in Australia who can't leave the country and have been told borders will be kept closed til this time next year?

Grass is always greener.

I’m sorry that you’ve had a hard time here; it’s been a terrible time to come to a new country. I’ve several friends in similar predicaments in different places in the world. And I think it’s doubly hard for people who are outgoing and adventurous enough to move to another country and then find their social channels and travel opportunities blocked off.

I definitely think that the Irish media establishment is in its swan song, smugly preaching to the choir of a particular section of society and steadfastly ignoring the rising tide of change. The pandemic has slowed everything down but the last election showed a huge level of discontent and division. Between rte and ffg and the weird social experiment of the pandemic you could be mistaken for thinking that it’s not there, but it is.

I know exactly when I last watched the late late show because we tune in once a year for the toy show! And even in my childhood we never relied solely on Rte for the news.

I’m assuming you’re not getting to mix much or engage very deeply with people, because you don’t seem to have encountered a wide range of views. By the same token I’m not sure you’re really positioned to comment on Irish society as a whole. I recognise the type you’re talking about, but there are more views out there than one.

Ireland has a way of leaning into its stereotypes and often there can be layers of meaning in what people say. It’s not at all unusual for people to say the exact opposite of what they mean. And from the outside it can seem slow and backward, but Ireland has a long history of maintaining a culture under the radar from outsiders. Social change can be so rapid that you’d hardly notice it. Within a week of the legalisation of gay marriage, derogatory remarks about homosexuality had disappeared and you’d think it had never been a problem - conservative grannies were suddenly openly talking about their gay grandchildren or coming out themselves. In September of 2015 Pearse and Casement’s achievements were being denigrated by slurring them as homosexuals, and by the centenery they were openly lauded as a gay heroes. Even conservative catholics here scandalise my US Christian friends with their a la carte religion. Scratch the surface a bit and it’s rarely as simple as it seems.

I’m not saying there aren’t deep seated social issues. There certainly are.

I can completely understand you needing to put the last few years behind you, and packing up and moving are a great way to do that. We all have a need to put these years behind us. I’ve done it myself, after a difficult period, moved away and blamed my misery on the place I was leaving. But it’s a short term solution if you don’t also deal with the rest of the problem. So please do consider seeking help for your depression too.

Anyway, I wish you well, wherever you end up next. May we all be able to leave our troubles behind.

Ireland can be a very difficult nut to crack, very insular and inward looking and you’ll often find that the people who say it’s the friendliest place on earth are ....erm ..... Irish.
I’d love to leave but I’m well and truly stuck here, no way out for me I’m afraid. They be burying me here.
If you stay, as an outsider, you have to keep trying and trying to integrate and not get downhearted and take stuff too personally. Sorry to sound angry and moany, I’m just having a day when it’s one racist comment too many, don’t mind me
Carry on.

Sorry, got to add to your list op:
Pummelling you for all your personal information whilst telling you nothing about themselves....

@Cveg

I'm putting an exit plan in motion. I just wonder whether I'll ever be able to feel the same way about the place again. I used to love coming here for a weekend but maybe I never saw it for what it was. Or maybe when the dust settles the sanctimonious ones, having had their moment in the sun, will retreat and it will be bearable again. I really do think Ireland needs to be aware of itself as a society; it is all well and good being family-oriented but honestly the degree of conformist, this weird thing about one person says something positive about a public figure then everyone else piles in to reinforce it, as if not to do so is to expose yourself as a different thinker, the blind eye turned to rampant societal alcoholism, the esteem in which priests still seem to be held, the thing about going on and on about how you've a brother working in Toronto as if that automatically makes you open-minded, the strange, strange interest in the ethnic and work background of people "buying the house up the road", the way mental health is still ignored despite it obviously being in crisis the abysmal politicians, the whole secrecy thing ("here take this bag (to cover some cutlery I was lent) you don't want people knowing your business)). I feel like writing a book about it all

@Cveg I honestly can’t identify with anything you’ve written here. If you find this is your experience of Ireland but don’t want to leave maybe consider renting elsewhere for a bit and see what you think?

Also I’ve never watched the late late show and neither did my parents so I never saw it growing up. I thought it was well known it’s a dreadful load of drivel. Someone even made a video comparing it to graham Norton show also on the same time. Maybe you’ll enjoy it

Being a tourist in ireland is very different from living there, especially if you’re rural. I know the mentality you’re taking about and I’m originally from Dublin, it’s still present there. Gossip, begrudgery, suspicious of anyone knew or different. I’ve been there, it’s why I left and why I haven’t returned. I often think I’ll move back but then see posts like this on here and on Reddit and it puts me off.