Thoughts on the proposed new Leaving Cert? What could it entail?

[Cheeryblossom1]

Any thoughts on what way the LC could possibly change? Does it mean less subjects? More focus on life skills?
I don't like the points system but I think it's much fairer than the U. S college entrance system which focuses on interview, how many extracurriculars etc...

Maybe drop the mandatory subjects and make all subjects optional according to timetabling schedules?

Could it be more like the A Levels in the UK where you choose your subjects and Maths, English and Irish are no longer compulsory?

God no, not the A-level system. Specialising that early is a terrible idea, esp when it feeds through to what college courses you're eligible to do. What % of 15-year-olds know enough about their career and life plans to specialise so narrowly so young?

I hope they keep compulsory maths and English (or Irish for gaelcoláistí) plus a compulsory language... whether that's Irish, French or whatever. I'd be happy to see Irish continue compulsory in its own right, tbh, but only if the curriculum is reworked with a better focus on the spoken, contemporary language. Then a range of 3-4 other subjects from a wide spread that means students can keep their options open about what to after the leaving...

Having had 2 go through the LC and 2 to go, would really like to see the option of calculated grades based on work over the 2 years, with the exam for those who prefer it. If they can make it work during the pandemic they have no excuse going forward.

I know that one of my DC would have done so much better with a continuous assessment LC than they did in the exam. It's so unfair on students who work diligently getting great grades on course work, but then it counts for little or nothing, your whole school career comes down to how much you can regurgitate in a 3 hour exam.

On the other hand some students thrive on cramming and exams so that should be acceptable too.

I just want to see a system that accounts for all learning styles and allows students to show how much they have learned rather than try to catch them out on what they don't know.

However, given how long it took to implement reforms to the JC, I won't hold my breath on this one.

@MarDhea I admit I was horrified at the thoughts of DC1 making such a decision so young for A Levels having done LC myself. I have now come around to it due to DDs experience, she hated maths and science and the liberation from these time consuming subjects has allowed her to excel at her chosen A levels and actually enjoy learning again. I think the difference is that GCSES are minimum basic requirement for lots of things whereas in Ireland it's the LC.

@MarDhea I used to work in a top 10 university in the U.K. and for science subjects such as Physics, Chemistry etc., students who had a broader range of A'levels or equivalent were often seriously disadvantaged in their first year compared to their peers with pure science A'levels.

That's why I think it's time to drop the compulsory subjects completely and let the students choose from a range of options after Junior Cert.

It was my experiences in the UK that led to my opinion that early specialisation is not the way to go. For every student that KNOWS they want to be a scientist by mid teens and takes 3 STEM A-levels, there are 10 more students who don't yet know what they want to do but are forced to choose a narrow range of subjects that backfires on them. Like the student who thought they wanted to go into business/commerce so took A-levels in business, economics, etc. but then realised in their last year of school that it was actually architecture that interested them... only the architecture course they wanted to study required a science A-level and so they couldn't apply for it. Or the student who was gifted at music but couldn't keep it on for A-level because they thought that might study science and didn't want to rule out a university course needing a science A-level. Or the student who chose as diverse a range of A-level subjects as possible (history, French, biology) to try to hedge his bets, but then it turned out he wanted to study English at university he couldn't because he hadn't taken English or English lit at A-level. Or the academically strong student who is brilliant at everything and really can't decide on a future career just yet, but is stressed out by knowing that whatever she picks at A-level will rule out some university courses she might be interested in.

It's such a waste of potential.

Of course not everywhere in the UK uses A-levels. Scotland has the Highers instead, which is much broader than A-levels - student usually take 5 subjects. And there are all the private schools that teach the international bac instead of A-levels, which is again very broad and doesn't require such early specialisation as it's explicitly about a rounded education. I really like the Bac actually; lots of independent project work that could be nice to see in the Leaving.

Fewer subjects would be good. I really struggled with having to do subjects I was crap at, like Irish. Mandatory subjects at that high level is awful.

My son is great at maths and science but rubbish (and I mean RUBBISH) at languages so I hope they make these changes by 2024

I'd like to see the end of compulsory Irish for LC, and the points system modified so that there is a weighting of points to subjects relevant to the college course (so if you're doing French in college your French result is more relevant than your Physics result; and if you're doing Sciences your science subject results are more relevant than your French). That would end the extra points for doing Honours Maths, and extra points for doing the LC through Irish. Alternatively you could present fewer subjects for points (say 5 rather than 6 subjects). None of that will be helpful to managing access to high points subjects where all the entrants have 635 points so I doubt they'll run with my suggestions.

I think the points system is quite fair, it's annoymous, the majority of courses don't require an interview, all candidates sit the same paper & on paper have an equal chance of getting the points (I know grinds schools, private schools etc tip the balance for some) compare that to the American system which is so corrupt & elitist, rigourous interviews to see if your face fits... How many million can your family invest in the campus... Students running themselves ragged doing numerous extracurriculars for their college application forms... Even the U. K entry system isn't as clear cut... At least here if you get the points you are pretty much guaranteed an offer..

If it's like the JC reforms it'll be wasting time on wellbeing (wellbeing is fine but not at the expense of other subjects) and more continuous assessment.

Sinnoch rua totally agree with you.. My neighbours ds who is doing the LC this year had a half day every week during lockdown to focus on mindfulness... Really stressed him & family out as many courses were nowhere near completed... The principle shot down parents corcerns & said the schools priority was the students wellbeing during the pandemic....

I would hope an end to compulsory Irish, English & maths. My daughter is doing her lc and is just now, 2 weeks before the exams finishing the curriculum. That is crazy. I think having an element of predicted grades in future, esp for those who have had circumstances around the exams which make doing well impossible (sickness, bereavement etc.). There have been kids sitting exams in hospital because there was no alternative, or just after parents funerals (or else you have to repeat the year). I have one in LC and one in 5th yr. The 5th yr will have to do the LC having had all the interruptions too.