Mithered with LC stress! Predictions of what will happen?

[Straussful]

I have a teenager studying for the leaving. Naturally the stress is sky high. She's sensible and a consistent worker but still feels her chances of even moderate success are slipping away. Unprecented numbers of CAO applicants mean points may be higher, students who got pg and deferred and those who sat the leaving 2020 will be added to the mix. I'm trying to keep her buoyed up but even that is exhausting.

I think they will hold exams and I think there will be minimum changes to papers because I am assuming the more vocal union members come from better schools as I see comments about how they have their courses completed . DDs school is basic but grand and they are not nearly ready (probably wouldn't have been in a normal year it has to be said).

I have everything crossed that they will not extend the exam dates as that will scupper summer job (and college living expenses earning potential) prospects and just prolong the agony. That's another reason I think the vocal union members are from richer areas - around here all teenagers work to save for college and some take a year out to work and save as we don't live within commuting distance of third level institutions.

I have written to Micheal Martin and the delightful Norma numerous times but had deafening silence in return, not that I expected much more but I do feel the current government have failed this group of teenagers. The only consolation I can give my DD is to never, ever vote for FF. But that's cold comfort as, at 18, she feels that she has no voice or relevance in her country.

Roll on September when I'll (HOPEFULLY) be finished with this shit show of secondary education!

I don't know! Not sure anyone else does, but you are right to be concerned. I have some good insight with respect to our local 3rd level uni and a few comments:

• sadly, you are right to be concerned. Last year the private schools coped much better with completing course content. The teachers/classes basically worked right through. It varied more in the other schools. My dsis is on here, a great teacher, now a vice principal, but she'll admit they didn't do a great job last year, doing better this year, but still ...

• you are very naive, if not downright crazy, if you think writing to an Irish politician will help. you are right that the students have been failed, but that is a lot more than any specific political party/person, and unions played a major part in the debacle

• I do feel sorry for your DD, she is shortchanged. So are the students in 1st year this year. They came in to 3rd level the least prepared of any year in the past. Many many are struggling.

I wish all the best for your DD in LC, but that is just the start. This year will also be facing into an especially time in college having missed out on so much of their 5/6th year education.

I know that there's a cohort of students pushing for predicted grades but I think teachers were very badly burnt by those last summer. Some teachers graded according to Government criteria,with assurances that their scores wouldn't be given out to students. Some just gave their entire class top grades while some were realistic in their predictions.

The end result was that some classes and schools were hugely dragged down (look at St Killian's) by the algorithm or by adhering to the Governmental criteria. I think there has to be an element of exam this year tbh.

@SionnachRua, I would personally agree with the exam approach. Having said that I'm acutely aware of this will hugely impacted by the quality of the remote teaching. I know of some schools that have done a really outstanding job. They'll have a huge advantage.

@Straussful, your comments on the "shit show of secondary education" made me smile :) Look at Irish Uni world rankings now compared to 10 years ago. If you want a shit show, that's where you should look.

I would personally agree with the exam approach. Having said that I'm acutely aware of this will hugely impacted by the quality of the remote teaching. I know of some schools that have done a really outstanding job. They'll have a huge advantage.

I agree with you but then again, isn't that the case every year? Some teachers are amazing, some are not (and some are good but the student just doesn't gel with them). I'm not saying that remote doesn't have additional challenges - of course it does - but it's not like provision is equal every other year either.

In my head, I'm expecting some sort of combo of exams and predicted grades. I think the other issue with predicted grades is that if they announce that now, some students will entirely tune out...and some will nitpick every mark or correction they get. To say nothing of the mummies and daddies pestering teachers. A minefield.

Your dd will probably be fine. Unless she is going for one of the seriously oversubscribed courses like medicine/ veterinary there are so many opportunities and she will be able to get going. All this years leaving certs are in the same boat and it looks like they are adapting the exam to take that into account. I am no supporter of Fianna Fail but surely the blame lies with a world wide pandemic rather than any government. They are unfortunate to be one of the years affected but they have a much better chance of actually being in college than last years cohort. She sounds steady and the resilience/ Independent learning skills she has picked up this year will stand to her.

Re the government, from a leaving cert students point of view they are not leading. The absence of a firm decision or any decent communication is poor governing!

Yes, I think she will be fine but everyone would have been better if the department had called it months ago one way or another.

@straussful, how would you have called it months ago? Just curious.

If I take the first 2 weeks of Dec 2020, cases below 300 a day for weeks with the schools back, I'd have expected/planned for normal LC exams. At this stage I find it difficult to see a normal LC exam cycle.

@bythebanksof, that reminds me of the quote "when the facts change, I change my mind, what do you do?"

As a parent of a leaving cert student last year, it was an awful uncertain experience.

I've no doubt that dept/govt wanted kids back in school, but there was NO WAY that was happening with the teachers/union, people can argue the pros/cons.

Well, if I had had an effective solution I would be in government and not doing the job I am doing! As it is I do my job well and expect others to the same, why put yourself forward for a position unless you think you can do a better job than anyone else? (I'm talking about MM and NF)

I don't know what solution would be perfect but I do know that until January they were trying to sweep last years missed weeks Under the carpet and my DD's school were struggling to catch up.

I do know that I believe, and do not think I can be convinced otherwise, that the current government are not leading effectively. I do not feel that there is a competent driver at the wheel (of Ireland) at the moment!

ASTI and TUI directed teachers not to co-operate with government plans before Leaving Cert u-turn

www.thejournal.ie/teachers-union-back-to-school-leaving-cert-5318602-Jan2021/

Full agree with the post on the 3rd level shit show. Working i n that sector I can truly say that that the last 10 years 3rd level have been woefully mismanaged. I agree with @Straussful the FG/Lab was a disaster for 3rd level, and FF look like more of the same.

Appointing a college drop out to head 3rd level is a very interesting move.

www.universitytimes.ie/2020/06/simon-harris-becomes-minister-for-higher-education-innovation-and-research/

"Harris began a degree in journalism and French in Dublin Institute of Technology, but dropped out to pursue politics, the Irish Times reported in 2016."

I believe that news article may not be correct. He was a drop out, but I'd been told that he continued to take some module/exams while in his TD/minister role. So calling him a drop out might be a bit harsh.

.. But it would make a nice headline: Minister for Higher Education, Innovation and Research in Ireland finally qualifies for his degree!

I think it could be good that Simon Harris has had a bit of a winding path himself, means he should have empathy for the huge numbers who drop out of 1st Year each year. Maybe he'll get the alternative routes, such as apprenticeships, seen as a viable alternative and streamline entry to them too.