Changing your surname to the Irish version

[WordOfTheDay]

I'm toying with the idea of changing my surname to the Irish version. I wonder if any of you have experience of doing this, why you or the person did it, how it was received by others. Are there strong connotations associated with doing this, do you think? Any regrets? Or are you/ they happy with their choice?

I live in the Netherlands permanently. I already have an Irish/Scottish-sounding "Mc" surname, so already have that "Irish" badge, which makes it less motivating to make the change. However, I am Irish and I like my Irish identity. By the way, my Irish language skills are passable and I've been studying/improving for a couple of years now.

@WiseOwlWan I really enjoy listening to the English sports commentators trying to pronounce Caoimhín Kelleher

DS's have to use their Irish names for Gaelic.

My grandfather popped an ‘e’ into our surname when he moved to England so folk wouldn’t know he was Irish.

Bless.

@JayAlfredPrufrock What a smart operator your grandad was! I'm sure nobody figured out he was a boglander!
I met a guy who goes by Ó Seasnáin instead of Sexton. It sounds really good with his first name too.
@MadameMiggeldy Shacked up with a Miley McMarvellous, ye say.... Fair play to ye!

I’ve just used that checker site. Without the ‘e’ lots of suggestions. With the ‘e’, nothing.

Maybe he was cleverer than I thought 🤔

@20shadesofgreen

The website gives the masculine version. Afaik there are 2 versions of the feminine version of my surname in use. I’ve never really known how to choose.

If it’s a Mac name, use Nic if not married, Mhic if it is your married name.

The 2 options are Ní and Nic the surname begins with a C and both versions are widely used for women. I’m not sure how the split goes.

Nic for Mac and Ní for Ó.

The two versions of the female name indicate marital status, like Miss or Mrs.

Ciara O'Brien
= Ciara Ní Bhriain if it's her birth surname
= Ciara Uí Bhriain (or Ciara Bean Uí Bhriain) if it's her surname by marriage

Ciara McMahon
= Ciara Nic Mhathúna if it's her birth surname
= Ciara Mhic Mhathúna (or Ciara Bean Mhic Mhathúna) if it's her surname by marriage

Most women I know with Irish surnames stick to their birth name and don't change it on marriage. Interestingly enough, in traditional Gaelic culture, a woman wouldn't have changed her name on marriage anyway, so it's a kind of return to form.

Ciara O'Brien
= Ciara Ní Bhriain if it's her birth surname
= Ciara Uí Bhriain (or Ciara Bean Uí Bhriain) if it's her surname by marriage

I was an O'Brien for 26 years and never knew this. That's really interesting.

@20shadesofgreen

The 2 options are Ní and Nic the surname begins with a C and both versions are widely used for women. I’m not sure how the split goes.

There are loads of exceptions. Mc names generally take Nic (Mhic if married name) unless the name starts with a C or D where it takes Ní (Uí if married name) instead.

So McCarthy = Ní Chárthaigh (or Uí Chárthaigh if surname by marriage)

But yeah, I do see women using Nic Chárthaigh instead (and presumably Mhic Chárthaigh as well). It's not the traditional female form of the name and probably displeases purists but sure so what... language is a living thing and prone to change. So if someone prefers the form Nic Chárthaigh to Ní Chárthaigh, then she might as well use it: just as long as she's prepared for people to tell her it's meant to be Ní Chárthaigh.

@MedusasBadHairDay

*Ciara O'Brien = Ciara Ní Bhriain if it's her birth surname = Ciara Uí Bhriain (or Ciara Bean Uí Bhriain) if it's her surname by marriage*

I was an O'Brien for 26 years and never knew this. That's really interesting.

My teacher in junior infants was Bean Uí Bhriain, so the first time I ever met the name was in the Uí form

Hardly ever see it now, it's mostly Ní Bhriain.

I wish I'd spoken to my grandparents more about their upbringing in Ireland, my dad spent more of his life in England so doesn't have too much to tell me, it's only as an adult I've realised how little I know about my heritage.

@MedusasBadHairDay It's great that you have the interest. Good for you! You don't need your GPs or DF to reconnect with your heritage. You could listen to The Irish Passport podcast for instance (start with episode 1). It's really interesting and informative and explains/discusses lots of aspects of Irish society, culture, history, politics. It's all topical and useful. The original idea behind it was to inform interested people like yourself and people taking Irish citizenship. I've enjoyed it a lot as an Irish person no longer living in Ireland, but am 100% sure that it is equally interesting to people who live in Ireland day in, day out.
www.theirishpassport.com/

Word I hadn't heard of that podcast, I'll definitely give it a listen

Interesting article here of factoids below.

Someone did tell me recently that Irish surnames are the oldest in Europe. He had read a book about Irish surnames recently. Apparently, people were called things like Tom the tailor, which became Tom Taylor, all over Europe, but those names were "nicknames" adopted as surnames. True surnames were a phenomenon in Ireland earlier than elsewhere apparently.
www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/a-dozen-things-you-might-not-know-about-irish-names-1.2842791%3fmode=amp

Yes MarDhea you’ve hit exactly what I was talking about, my surname does the exact same as your example, but the Ch is only on the Ní version so it is actually quite hard to say the Nic version, so NicC or NíCh. I have been assigned both versions by Irish teachers and the nuns over the years with each person being adamant that theirs was the correct version .

@ Medusa Tá fáilte romhat! You're welcome.

@MarDhea Thanks you, thank you for sharing that tidbit re. woman keeping their maiden name with Ní/Nic/Ó in times of yore. I'd spotted some married Irish-speaking woman sporting Ní/Nic/Ó in the media and wondered what was up. I thought maybe they were just being "modern", but then I think I saw it in relation to a much older married woman or historical married woman and began to wonder if I was missing something.

@WordOfTheDay

@ Medusa Tá fáilte romhat! You're welcome.

@MarDhea Thanks you, thank you for sharing that tidbit re. woman keeping their maiden name with Ní/Nic/Ó in times of yore. I'd spotted some married Irish-speaking woman sporting Ní/Nic/Ó in the media and wondered what was up. I thought maybe they were just being "modern", but then I think I saw it in relation to a much older married woman or historical married woman and began to wonder if I was missing something.

I'm fascinated by it all. Gaelic culture was so utterly different to the Anglo culture imposed from the Pale and plantations.

So married women retaining their birth names? Owning their own property? Divorcing their husbands? Godless heathens, the lot!

The name thing is why Gráinne Ní Mháille was always known as Ní Mháille, even though she married twice. It hung on as the social convention in Gaeltacht areas (even though the law said different) until the early 20th century - we all know the name Peig Sayers, but Sayers is her birth name. She actually married an Ó Guithín but was never known by the name.

Tbh, there's still remnants of it around today. I can think of a couple of women of my parents' generation out weshth who are "of standing" in the area where they live - one runs a pub and the other is from a well-known family - and they stayed known by their birth surname even after marriage. They're quite traditional people so it wasn't a modern feminist statement at all! But perhaps it's a very old one

Interesting about women keeping their birth surname in ancient times

I started using my Irish name about 12 years ago. Started on FB but then gradually as I met new people (and connected with them via FB) it became my name IRL. Of course lots of people still use my original and legal name too. I answer to both. Where I live (I’m in NI) there has been a big growth in use of the Irish language and lots of people are now using their Irish names.

Definitely notions! Unless your from the Gaeltacht or grew up immersed in the Irish language & culture don't do it... Around my area people give their kids unusual Irish names in the hope of getting them into the local oversubscribed Gaelscoil... Same parents are the first to admit they only know a cúpla focal...

Same parents are the first to admit they only know a cúpla focal.

What’s your problem with that? They want their Dc to have the experience of Irish that they didn’t have. Why sneer at that?

Im torn on the notions aspect. Personally id be too embarrassed to use my irish name as my irish is terrible.

I use my Irish surname for everything in my daily life. As I'm a teacher, I teach under my English name so I like to think it helps make me a bit less findable I was brought up using the English name but changed everything over when I went to college, it seemed like a good time to make the change.

Why wouldn't I (or you) use it? The Irish names are usually much nicer than English imo.

Forgot to add: I lived abroad with it as an Irish name and it was no problem, or at least the English version seemed about as tricky as the Irish one did. That was in one EU country and then two further afield.