Leavers Cert Help

[ProudAuntie76]

Hi there,

I’m Welsh, living in Wales but married to an Irishman. It’s a long time since he finished school himself (he’s 52!) but our nephew got his Leaver’s Cert results yesterday and we’ve no idea how well he’s done and if he’s likely to get a place at University. We Whatsapped him last night and he said his results were “grand” with SIL mentioning today that he got 370 points but that he won’t know if he has a place for a while and that also not all of his points count towards a place. We have no idea what it all means and don’t know the system. Please could someone guide us as to if this a generally good result and if it could lead him into a good career? He previously spoke about going to university and becoming a teacher or studying for a career leading to police work (criminology?). We are hoping he’s done well enough to have options but not sure at the moment. Hoping it all works out for him.

The leaving cert points are a numerical summary of how he did in six subjects in the leaving cert. University places are given out on the basis of highest points get first choice; medicine is likely to be nearly 600 points (maximum 100 per subject), other courses have points levels dependent on demand.

370 is a better than average result and will likely get him a place in university, but not a higher points course like engineering or primary teaching or science. Depending on where he lives and which university he applies to 370 will get him into a general arts degree course, and would also get him into many higher level courses in various further education colleges. Secondary teaching is usually accessed via a BA degree and a post-graduate teaching certificate, so 370 is definitely enough for that.

The places are offered to every child on the same day (this year will be on September 11th) and he will be offered his highest choice for which he has enough points. The levels vary, depending on how many kids have applied for that course, and this year it will be a bit up in the air as the leaving cert results are higher than in previous years so the points requirements for courses will inevitably go up.

Basically, tell him well done, wait until the 11th and see what he';s been offered. If he gets what he wants, great. If he doesn't, there are many ways to get where he wants via the back door of post-leaving-cert courses and certificate courses that lead on to degrees.

Thanks so much for explaining, I understand better now. It’s just confusing when you are used to an A*, A, B system etc!

I looked into it a bit further with the universities he mentioned and he doesn’t seem to have the points to get on the teaching courses he wanted to do but he could always go about it another way, as you mention or change ideas about careers. He might not decide to do a degree at all, he seems a bit indecisive now. I’m sure it will all work out for the best, it’s been such a strange year for all the school leavers.

Honestly? 370 is not brillant. Most university courses would be higher than that. Some arts courses would be all he would get in a university. However, he would get into a good number of courses in the Institutes of Technology but they don't do teaching courses.

I don't understand how all his points won't count unless they are adding up the points for all his subjects but if they are, then he has a lot less than 370. Most kids do 7 or 8 subjects and only the top 6 are counted. There are 25 bonus points for honours maths if you pass it.

Maximum points for courses that are assessed only on the leaving cert is 625 (100 x 6 subjects plus 25 bonus for maths if maths is one of those 6). Some courses have a portfolio or an additional exam (medicine has the HPAT, art generally needs a portfolio) so points for them are higher. So medicine, for example, Is between 731 and 737 this year.

He could get into teaching via a BA and I think there are some criminology type courses in some of the ITs, so he could get into the areas he's interested in that way.

@OchonAgusOchonO

Some arts courses would be all he would get in a university

I think I know what you're trying to say & the rest of your post makes sense, but I need to take issue with this!

'All he would get' is a pejorative way to put it. Many Arts degrees are at c300 points this year, and yes, that's quite low, but as you know, the points system is a 'supply & demand' arrangement, so there's many Arts places, less applicants with lower points overall, than usual, hence 300 points.

However, academically, it's as rigorous as any other course, the points are not indicative of the academic content & level required.

OP if your nephew does get an offer on an Arts course, and is interested in studying certain subjects, that's great. As has been said, after a BA he can do a teaching postgrad, if that's what he wants.

It's key that he does actually want to study those subjects tho, or else he

....posted too soon!

Ot else he won't do well.

From your point of view, I'd stay out it now, except to congratulate him & wish him the best with whatever choice he makes.

It's been a tough few months for LC students.

@EarringsandLipstick - apologies. I phrased it badly.

What I was trying to say was he would only have enough points for some Arts degrees. "Would be all he would get" was meant to indicate the low number of courses he would be eligible for, rather than an assessment of the quality or otherwise of the courses.

However, academically, it's as rigorous as any other course, the points are not indicative of the academic content & level required.

And yes, I'm well aware that points required is not an indication of academic rigour. I'm a lecturer so would want to know .

However, once upon a time I would have said that the entry points don't matter. Now, after over 20 years in academia, I think the entry points can matter (not always obviously) as a course with higher points tends to have more diligent and more able students. This results in a class ethos that is much more hard working and with students who are likely to get more involved in their course. This helps to improve the learning experience for all students. Learning is about much more than the material provided by the lecturer.

That said, an interested, diligent student will do well no matter what as they will rise above a poor ethos in the class.

I think the entry points can matter (not always obviously) as a course with higher points tends to have more diligent and more able students. This results in a class ethos that is much more hard working and with students who are likely to get more involved in their course. This helps to improve the learning experience for all students. Learning is about much more than the material provided by the lecturer.

Very good point @OchonAgusOchonO & I have observed the same at the institution where I teach.

And I get what you were saying with your previous post, makes sense!

Thanks all.

He did 7 subjects and the 370 was based on that. With only the top 6 included he went down to 345.

He’s very happy with his results and has a place to study for a vocational course at a college rather than a university and he will eventually get a degree at the end (though it will take longer). He’s not currently going to pursue teaching but I wouldn’t be surprised if he changed his mind when he’s a bit older and has a degree and some life experience under his belt. The job related to his course isn’t for the faint hearted and he’s extremely sensitive with attendance issues.

They have had a tough year but my private thoughts are also that the results aren’t great. Not telling him that though of course! He’s currently extremely delighted with himself . As long as he’s happy and set on a career path that’s the main thing. Just hope he knuckles down a bit more for his higher level studies than he did for school as it’s going to be an expensive 5 years!

He did 7 subjects and the 370 was based on that. With only the top 6 included he went down to 345.

I don't think you're getting the correct results there as no grade corresponds to 25 points!

But yes, so long as he's happy and hopefully he'll find his passion and work hard.