Ds is doing some work about Irish independence and I wondered if it would be ok to ask you a few questions?

[Kahiki]

I really hope this is ok to ask here but feel free to tell me to sod off.

Da is doing some school work on Irish independence and he was hoping to ask for opinions from people who are Irish. Part of his project is to try and get some first hand opinions which is why I thought to ask here.

I fully appreciate this is a huge and complex topic and not one that can be answered with a few lines or paragraphs but anything you can add would be really helpful.

He needs to ask if the Easter rising and more recently the troubles/IRA have shaped your views of the British and if so how? Have your views changed over time? How do you feel about Irish independence.

As I said even a line or two would be really helpful.

I'm Irish Catholic born and reared in ROI. I am (only) 39 so don't recall the Easter Rising.
I didn't grow up hearing much anti-British sentiment in my family. That was on purpose as there was a fear of our generation becoming involved with the IRA. So the history of independence and the treatment of Catholics in the North was downplayed a lot to us.
As an adult I learned that my Grandfather's father was in the original IRA and fought for independence. This had a detrimental effect on his family as he was on the run from the British forces and so his wife was left alone to rear my Grandfather and his siblings. I think this is why there was no glorification of war or freedom fighting within the family.
Within my community there were some casual derogatory references to "Brits" but a lot of people had family in England and some of them sent their children home to grandparents in the summer holidays. Those children just played with the other kids. Most of the conversations about their Britishness revolved around the sweets they had we didn't and had they ever been to Alton Towers!
I was a child and teen when the worst of the troubles were happening. Albeit very shielded from it. As a teen I became much more aware of the reality in NI as the children of the families that came on their annual holidays "down south" to avoid the 12th July were my friends and the older we got the more they and we understood the differences in our lives.
I occasionally had a trip to the city cancelled because of a bomb threat, they went through army checkpoints on the way to school.
As an adult I am very glad ROI gained independence from the British and I would say the treatment of Catholics in Northern Ireland and the conduct of the British Army during the Troubles is why.
I personally don't have any issue with British people and nor do my family or friends. Some of my family and friends have married British people and now have British children of their own.

Hope some of that is useable for him.

I'm Belfast born and bred, and in my late 40s so I grew up during the Troubles. I definitely have a negative opinion of the British government, but not Brirish people (or at least not all). They stole Northern Ireland and treated us appallingly, and we are still now just a second thought to them. My opinion of the Easter Rising is that it was fully justified.

I lived in London for a couple of years in my 20s and was shocked at the lack of knowledge of British people towards NI and how it all came about. They had a very one-sided view and saw us as trouble makers. Very very few were aware of the Loyalist side in NI, most had just heard of the IRA. But I never came across a single person who wasn't willing to listen or wanting to learn more.

I have always thought of myself as Northern Irish first, then Irish, and lastly British. My ideal would be an independant NI but that's just not feasible. Before Brexit, I was happy to remain part of the UK as I believed we were better off financially, but after the shitshow that is Brexit, and the total disregard shown to NI and the Good Friday Agreement, I am now pro-United Ireland. I also believe the British Government owe us (and the rest of Ireland) a public apology, but I can't see that ever happening. I would also like to see a more rounded view to it all being taught in British schools, but I can't see that happening either

@Sk1nnyB1tch @NornIronkid.

Thank you both so much. Ds and I both really appreciate your replies.

I'd agree with the dislike of the British government but not the British people. Since Brexit, the dislike of the British government is also mingled with amusement/pity for the British people. It is kind of like the Germans - I don't hold modern, young Germans responsible for anything their country did in the past (as long as they acknowledge it was wrong).

I consider the 1916 rebels and those who fought for Ireland in the war of Independence national heroes. The British treated them abominably. The Troubles isn't as clear cut - some of it justified due to oppression, some absolutely not.

As a kid I was pretty strongly nationalist (I spent a year with a teacher who taught us about all the horrors the British brought 😂) but I grew out of that fairly quick. A lot of that just comes down to immaturity - goodies and baddies and all that.

I would like to see Ireland reunited as I feel a lot of kinship with nationalists in the North. However I am wary of it (financially, loyalists etc) and I don't think I will see it in my lifetime. An independent NI is probably more workable and fairer to the loyalist community.

I would like for the British government to formally apologise for all that was done to Ireland and for Irish treasures in British museums to be returned. I also find things like the Cromwell statues disgusting and I'd cheer if they were removed. I don't know the details of how much Irish history is taught in the UK but I do think the Troubles should be explored, as well as the Famine (and the genocidal nature of it). It could link into the Bengal Famine etc.

An interesting question.

My grandfather was not involved in the rising, but could recall the call going out for Easter Sunday in Dublin. He told of people getting ready to travel from the country to Dublin, and then the sense of anti-climax when it was called off.
He would have talked about how people then didn't travel to Dublin the following day, due to the confusion on Sunday.

His brother was heavily involved in the War of Independence and the Black and Tans were involved in some horrific atrocities locally (effectively, lynching members of local families).
People are still aware of the horrific reprisals visited by the Auxillaries, but they deliberately dont talk about it, as it would have inflamed feelings particularly during the "Troubles".

My grandmother had her native Irish smacked out of her at school, and hid IRA members in the War of Independence. But both DGM and DGF talked about the British efforts in WW2 with admiration.

So, my views of "the British" was even handed, because of the efforts of many Irish people, to move on.

I deeply admired the actions of the Queen when she visited, and bent her head at the Garden of Remembrance. But I had an absolute surge of anger for about a week after reading "The Graves are Walking" (about the Famine).

I've worked in England and have great friends there. But, the police were called to attend a Marks and Spencer where I was shopping, and I was questioned, because of my accent. I heard umpteen versions of "stupid Paddy Irish" jokes; was referred to as a "peasant" and been over-supervised at work, as the assumption was that I was slacking off (no evidence, just prejudice). I was encouraged to go for promotion early in my career there.

The "Troubles"/IRA is quite reductive- you cannot refer to the Civil War in N.I. without also referring to Loyalists/UDA/UVF but that side of the conflict is omitted in British accounts.
People like John Hume and the Loyalist paramilitary man (whose name escapes me right now) should be canonised for their work on the peace process.

How do I feel about Irish independence- I dont really understand that question, unless it's aimed at people living In Northern Ireland. An independent Irish state is just part of who I am, it's not beholden to any other state's recognition.
Re-unification of Northern Ireland with the Republic- that's something that would need a lot of consideration and thought and I cant see it happening in the next 10 years (but then, who would have foreseen Brexit or Covid, so, who knows?)

if the Easter rising and more recently the troubles/IRA have shaped your views of the British and if so how?

Why, because of the people the British executed after the Rising? I don't think that was the worst of the British crimes against the Irish.

The IRA aren't British, so no.

However the British disregard for the GFA does shape my view and not in a good way.

Have your views changed over time? No, but definitely don't think there is need for any IRA activity nowadays and hope it stays that way.

How do you feel about Irish independence.
Is this a Q for people in ROI, who have been independent for almost 100 years, or about NI possibly leaving the UK? Well I'm ROI and it feels great!

I can't explain the utter abhorrence we feel at the mere notion, whether by a UK politician or Mumsnet user who comes up with the suggestion that ROI should become part of the UK again. That didn't go so well the last time. Penal laws, 1million deaths, 1.5 million emigrated. On the other hand, ROI has seen huge benefits from joining the EU and we know it.

Who on earth with a brain would suggest that the R O I become part of the UK, seriously !??

I am young ish too so I grew up with the tail end of the troubles but not the raising. As I am in the republic we didn't really have any idea of what was going on. I did live close to the border and I remember the fear of crossing over it, the men with guns, the idea floating around that the British army could kill you. They'd make you wait while checking I.d and it was terrifying but I was British. I was born there so as a teen I tried hard to dissociate myself with England. I wholly supported the IRA. I saw "Brits out now" slogans in bars and on footpaths and laughed. I fully supported the fact that they were prisoners of war and that the British government should give us our country back ,all the while supporting Manchester United.
I still dont know why you can wear liverpool shirts, Man United shirts, etc but not an England shirt.
Anyway, now I realise things arent so black and white.
I dont support the ra but I dont talk about the politics behind their actions as I simply dont know enough.
The thing I do know is that Catholics were treated like second class citizens, the one vote per household thing was awful and was purely because they didnt want Catholics to get ahead in the government.
Again as a child shopping in the north, my father would sometimes take the day off work and would collect us early from school.he'd make us keep outlr coats zipped up in case someone knew we were catholic, or we had the same uniform as a catholic school.
So while I held no prejudice towards the British people, (I have family in London) I was terrified of being shot by the British army and to this day I try to speak as little as possible in airports in London as the police with the big guns scare the crap out of me and probably most people to be honest.

If you look back at history though you'll see that Ireland was thriving under British rule, as a result most of the population did not actually support the raising, they wanted to remain under British rule. When the republic did get it's freedom the country was plunged into poverty.
The people who were killed in the raising, especially the children were never spoken about again.

I know This was to try and solve the contradiction between Brexit and the GFA.

It was put to Helen McEntee and Bertie Ahern as a "solution" this year. And a Mumsnet user suggested it too.

And, sorry, OP, but asking how we feel about Irish independence? What kind of answers are you expecting? Are you in the UK? How do you feel about your independence from France?

If you look back at history though you'll see that Ireland was thriving under British rule, as a result most of the population did not actually support the raising, they wanted to remain under British rule. When the republic did get it's freedom the country was plunged into poverty.

Never heard of that, do you know what history books cover that? Was it the Poor Laws and the workhouses seen as positives?

I'd only learnt of the absentee landlords etc. And the global recession in 1920, 1921.

It is common knowledge now. Even Irish documentaries cover it. I re read my old transition year diary when we did a bit about the war of independence, apparently I was really surprised to find this out. I'm not going to say how many years ago it was.

I grew up, and still live, on the border. We grew up walking from the Republic to NI and were used to seeing soldiers on the streets with guns, being stopped and searched, watching bombs being defused by robots, hearing bombs going off and having to evacuate buildings because of bomb scares from a young age. We thought nothing of crossing from one side of the border to the other, passing checkpoints and soldiers from we were tiny. We grew up seeing grafitti on walls saying 'Brits Out' but can honestly say none of that shaped our views on British people.

We did learn about our Irish history throughout primary school and I will admit that that did slightly tinge our views on British people, especially when we got into more detail at secondary school. It can easily make you very angry and I can see how it would make you hate the British. Although, I agree with the others that it was more so the British Government that the British people.

No sure what you mean by Independence since Ireland has been independent since 1922. Did you mean a United Ireland? If so, I can honestly say I don't know anyone (apart from maybe a few hardcore republican members of my family) who want a United Ireland.

Not sure if any of that is even any help to you but if you have anymore questions please do ask.

I'm originally from ROI and have lived in NI for over ten years.

Irish independence just... Is. There's no reason to change it, question it, doubt it, consider it.

Irish reunification is more tricky. I don't have any sentimental yearnings for it. As someone from ROI I'd worry about the economic impact for them, as well as the influence of right wing parties like the DUP. As someone in NI, I don't think NI is in any way ready to face into that level of upheaval. Another couple of generations of boring peace are needed first to get things on an even keel.

I never really experienced the Troubles, they didn't hugely impact my childhood. I've learned more since moving here, and I'm not sure it's widely understood outside of NI just how many people here experienced trauma in those years.

I do get annoyed when I see posts on here talking about the IRA with no mention of loyalists and no understanding of what the British army did in NI. I also find it frustrating when some on here imply the Troubles was the IRA bombing London. Look up the stats of numbers of deaths by area in NI Vs all of GB. And indeed ROI. What the people here went through was horrific.

I have nothing at all against British people. I have little respect for most British governments' attitudes to Ireland and NI. This has been particularly true since the Brexit vote.

If the Easter rising and more recently the troubles/IRA have shaped your views of the British and if so how?
Most of my friendship group have no issue with the British people. There is some dubiousness about the British establishment/government however. There is caution now, particularly because of our land border and Brexit. It is probably the similar for any country where there is/was some level of occupying force (think Afghanistan for a recent example). There will always be inappropriate behaviours by members of any armed force. Not just the British Armed Forces. Ireland has those scars and, the history of why the IRA came into being is, in some ways, a direct result of ill treatment of the population by British Forces. .

Have your views changed over time? I think as Britain is no longer the empire it once was, and then more recently Brexit and the bumbling Boris tailspin, there is a slight element of pity from this side of the Irish Sea.

How do you feel about Irish independence.
It is evident that Ireland did very well after Independence in 1922 and we embraced our language, culture and traditions once again.

Few alive would remember the Easter Rising, but it was considered a great and nobel thing in my family. The Troubles hugely impacted how I was raised to see the British as my family are from the border area and my Granny took in 20 Catholic kids from Belfast when the Troubles first kicked off and my uncles served jail time for IRA activities.
So we were raised to think this was someone else's problem and not an Irish thing at all so to avoid a second generation of IRA supporters. We weren't even allowed to watch BBC, it felt like rebellion to watch BBC in my neighbours!