How are you feeling about the upcoming budget?

[Bess34]

Just wondering how others are feeling about the upcoming budget? I’m feeling quite nervous as my DH is a higher rate tax payer (approx 70k pa after overtime and bonuses) I work part time (wouldn’t be any better off working full time anyway) with 3 children and expensive mortgage (rent wouldn’t be any cheaper) we’ve not been able to afford even a week in a caravan in the UK and had to cancel DC school music lessons and modest Christmas presents are all on having to be put on credit cards. As it is when my DH tries to earn extra doing overtime most of it goes in tax and a reduction in child benefit. Just very frustrated at the thought we might be seen as ripe for a tax grab, just because most people without children on 70k live very comfortably on that amount

Hmmmm, the state doesn’t cut Bess a cheque to spend on her DC’s education as she sees fit. Rather it compels her to send them to school, where it sets the agenda and curriculum. If they miss a day, she might be fined. If they are persistently absent, the coercion will ratchet up.

It doesn’t feel like Bess is creating the burden on the state. But rather, an overweening state has appropriated Bess’s children.

I can't help feeling that while we are all squabbling amongst ourselves the actual country is going down the tubes.

I mean we all know that each month the UK borrows money to balance the books (ie money out is more than money in)

The only way out of this is to have more money coming in than out and start repaying debt and building up the reputation of the UK.

We've already been downgraded several times over the last few years (UK credit rating)

The markets reacted favourably to RR saying she was raising income taxes. The interest rates our govt has to pay to borrow has since gone up when she said she had changed our mind.

The markets know the UK is running in a way that is not financially feasible for the long term. If they don't see signs of change to fix this we may get downrated again plus our cost to borrow will likely go up again.

The goverment is so worried about the rich leaving the country there is talk of an exit tax where you get your wealth taxed if you leave the UK. What kind of trouble must we be in if they are doing this in a bid to keep people here.

The only way out of this is grow the economy, get people back to work so taxes grow and income in becomes more than income out.

I don't understand what is happening with our youngsters. Some poster saying she has 3 children and they are all special needs. If less people are having children and those that are seem to be increasingly benefit claimants then we are literally going to end up with no income in and increase income out.

This can only go on so long. Borrowing costs will go up so interest which is already huge each month will keep increasing. At some point it is all going to go boom.

Goverments for the last 40 years have been keeping the UK afloat by selling things to give us cash injections. Selling off industries, council houses, our gold, closing down mental hospitals and selling the land, closing care homes and children homes and moving to care in the community.
Meanwhile our wealth seems to be based on house prices which is shaky indeed.

At the moment inflation is too high so they can't cut interest rates. They want to cut interest rates to try and stimulate growth but are caught between a rock and hard place. This is a bad place to be. Every 2nd thread on her is people talking about claiming benefits for themselves or their SEN kids, people getting made redundant and not being able to find a job, the rich leaving, councils paying practically their whole budget for just two areas - social care for kids and social care for adults.

If the OP is bringing up 3 healthy kids with no additional needs who will eventually go on to be fully functioning members of society then we should be bloody applauding people like her. She used to be the norm, now she is becoming a rare creature amongst the benefit claiming, SEN children threads.

Since Labour came in they have flattened the economy with creating a huge lack of confidence plus increasing NI on employers. The best thing they can do in this budget is make strong, decisive decisions like announce things to create growth, announce how they are increasing income, show they have the balls to cut costs. If the UK ever gets back to being a strong economy then we can spend more on things like benefits but just now, the country just can not afford it.

If she does nothing to inspire confidence the markets will raise borrowing for our goverment, our bonds will be more difficult to sell and so as existing bonds fall due for repayment she will struggle to replace them with new bonds. Also existing bonds falling due probably have lower interest rates and will be replaced by bonds with higher interest rates.

It is no accident the budget is so late this year.

Anyone that is not worried about the budget is living in a fantasy land. Big changes are coming because the UK is on a downward spiral.

I have never worried about budgets before. Usually they are raising tax on pints and a penny on the pump type budgets which quite frankly usually pass by un-noticed.

If they don't cut benefits the markets will react unfavourably.
If they don't up income the markets will react unfavourably
If they don't start growing the economy we are fucked.

Sorry for the long post but honestly all this inhouse squabbling is like worrying about a loose kitchen cupboard hinge whilst the roof is on fire and the foundations are subsiding.

It was only 80 years ago that the UK had no welfare system. None. We also had no free healthcare. None. It's not that unthinkable.

Even if the children become ‘fully functioning’ whatever that even means, most people are not contributing more than they are taking from the system.

If this is the truth. Then we can’t afford our spending. Especially with rich foreigners upping sticks.

Do we have to keep with the SEN children quips? Pretty sure most parents would prefer their children to not be disabled.

Being honest I am kind of looking forward to the tax hikes and inevitable moaning. 😂

Maths ain’t mathing.

Tax and NI on £70k without pension conts would be about £18500. You said he was paying pension contributions (which he will benefit from later) - assuming 5% contributions (which would be pretty poor) that drops to £17k tax and NI. That’s your direct household contributions, which is around 20% of your gross income.

Our household contributes closer to 32% in personal taxation. We have one child in school, no CB or any other benefits (never used tax free childcare etc). Neither of us has ever worked part time (I worked night shifts in the NHS when DD was small and DH worked days). We don’t take it for granted, but we are also very aware that prioritising one career leaves the other partner extremely vulnerable. If your husband was unable to maintain that salary through redundancy or illness you’d be pretty stuck. This really bothers me so we are insured to the hilt and don’t rely on public services to support us unless absolutely necessary.

I do believe the better off should contribute more to support those that “can’t”. “Won’t” is different. You could do more to support your family and the burden you place on the state, but you choose not to. That’s your choice, but it’s a bit bloody rich to bleat on about levels of taxation when you don’t actually pay any!

(We all pay VAT and buy from businesses that pay corp tax.)

She doesn’t have to send her children to school, actually. She could opt to home educate perfectly legally.

Based on your last two posts AmIHuman, should I assume you are in favour of home schooling and slashing benefits to working aged people?

I don’t think that’s a fair statement, no.

I have been fortunate to never have needed to rely on benefits. I know many people who have had no choice but to, including family members. As I said, I think the more well off have a duty to support those who genuinely can’t work for a number of reasons. But there is, and for a long time has been, a significant cohort of people who could do more for themselves and choose not to. There are generations of families in areas near me that haven’t worked since the coalmines closed in the 80s for no other reason than they don’t see why they should. (And I saw recently that some woman has been found to have made £480k in a year advising people on TikTok how to maximize/fraudulently claim benefits.) That surely has to stop. I don’t think we should bring back workhouses, but choosing a lifetime on benefits should not be possible.

I disagree with schemes like universal free school meals - why should those of us that can easily afford to pay be subsidised? They should absolutely increase the number entitled to free school meals as the requirements have been too strict in the past, but a universal benefit is ridiculous.

On home educating, I know people that have actively chosen this route and others that have been forced into it by the inability of schools to accommodate children’s needs. I would happily pay more tax to improve the opportunities for those children, who are often left behind by the system. (I’m a school governor x2 to try and have direct impact where I can.)

I also try to avoid buying from those multinationals that avoid paying tax here and use cash in local small businesses that prefer it to chargeable card payments. We donate cash regularly to the local foodbank and other local charities which help people that are struggling for whatever reasons. We all volunteer with various organisations.

This is all separate to my general frustration around female opportunity when they become parents (as we see countless times a week on here) and the intergenerational impact of that (if it’s almost always mothers doing the bulk of childcare, how will anything change for our daughters and granddaughters). And I’ve made it clear that bleating about taxation when you have engineered a period in your life to not pay any (for whatever reason) is rather ironic.

Then, with respect, maybe you need to look at prioritising your spending differently. Your income is certainly high enough to give your kids a really good life.

"I don't understand what is happening with our youngsters. Some poster saying she has 3 children and they are all special needs. If less people are having children and those that are seem to be increasingly benefit claimants then we are literally going to end up with no income in and increase income out."

A (so far unnamed) genetic syndrome happened to DD1. ASD happened to DD2, ASD plus a bunch of other stuff happened to DD3.

I was already pregnant with DD3 when someone finally took me seriously about DD1, even though she is significantly in need of support.

That's how it works. You beg and beg and beg for someone, anyone, to listen to you, and they tell you that you're paranoid, that you're neurotic, that you've read the text books but that's not what parenting is like. So you think you're just not enjoying parenthood the way you thought you would, that you're not the earth mama that you imagined, that you're bad at parenting. Then, someone else tries to look after your child and suddenly you're believed.

Then, you're not believed about difficulties your other children have. They don't get the support that would help them to survive mainstream school, they completely fall apart and go in to crisis.

Do I feel guilty that two of my children need special schools when they should have coped in mainstream. No. It's a travesty. They were destroyed by their school and I'll be picking up the pieces for years. A few bits of support would have made all the difference. By the time they realised I was right, they were being beyond the reach of a mainstream school.

I'm grateful for you that you don't understand.

It’s ironic that you subscribe to a branch of feminism that is based on the mysogynistic paradigm which devalues unpaid labour predominantly done by women. You call yourself a feminist and yet you try to insult me for that very really labour I do, which also ironically results in bringing in far more tax from our family than if I didn’t do it. What I find in common with almost all people with extreme ideologies is that they don’t support choice unless it’s the exact way of living that fits in with their extreme ideology. I would find your far left dystopian world as scary to live in as that of the far right. As it is at the moment my DH and I work as a team, being married gives us some legal protections to work like that in the UK thankfully, not to mention measures brought in years ago by people who genuinely cared about fairness for women, such as the NI credit provision for main parental carers to protect their eligibility to a full state pension I have a career I love, appreciation from my patients but also can be there to care for my children most of the time. Children who are proud of what both mummy and daddy do.
My DH has a career he also loves that also does useful work for society. Not to mention operate in probably what is the most sustainable way for the UK economy short and long term.
It is a shame the UK tax and benefits system is often woefully ineffective and unfair to anyone who does not fit into the neat box imagined by the policy makers, I thought the same as a single mother on the minimum wage, the system often actively penalised you for making any attempt to work hard and one day rise above the need for benefits, thankfully it has changed somewhat since then. However I was as determined then as I am now not to be financially coerced into never progressing my skills and education as I am now into being swayed into not having further children and caring for them myself.
The tax system on the other side does not act within the spirit or what it was designed for, particularly for most families with a single higher earner. Do a bit of googling and I thing you will find the take home pay for those with families with a higher earner on 60-80k is significantly less than 50% of their earnings. High tax economies do not generally end up working where there is not a consensus among those being taxed that what is being taken from them is fair. This is not the first time the pendulum swung too far in this country. Thank goodness we live in a democracy and can vote accordingly, eventually. Although I can’t blame friends who have decided to emigrate in the mean time but will hope that the moderates within Labour will make an effort to move the country back in balance

My children do have a good life, even if they do not have many of the things their friends seem to have like holidays, cinema trips, days out etc, how do their friends families have this money, generally either if they bought before house prices rose significantly and or they receive gifts from parents or other family members such as cash gifts, holidays and presents at Christmas/birthdays for their children. Quite a few of my children’s friends parents also receive maintenance in addition to UC and their earnings, as maintenance is disregarded from the assessment and they are only running one car, one set of adult needs, living in subsidised housing and are not feeding/caring for their child full time they find they have the spare money for holidays and then the child’s other parents/grandparents often take them on holiday too.
I did experience as a child for example going hungry etc and yes is course I am very thankful that my children do no have to experience that but it is a fallacy they don’t have significantly less than most children in this country

Sorry, but if you think your children are somehow disadvantaged with your household income, you are completely out of touch. You might need to budget more effectively and prioritise differently.

I think you will find that most people do not take an average amount from the system, a small minority take a disproportionately high amount and most people take less than the average. Most working in the public sector would say the same whether they are GPs, the police, teachers etc. That is no moral judgement on those taking a disproportionately high amount and indeed I think it illustrates a caring society that those who really need those extra resources are provided with them. The tax and welfare system operate in many counter productive ways however which does not maximise the efficiency of either raising revenue and productivity, being fair or ensuring those most in need receive the resources available or avoiding the need in the first place

Worried. I am a disabled carer to two disabled young people. I live on UC.
My husband walked out. I live in a rural old cold house with little transport.
I drive a 25 y/o car. I have no options to earn more. Food & heating costs up & up. I do think that Labour inherited a very poor hand (2008 crash, Brexit, Covid) but I don't think they're inspiring confidence in the run up to the budget.However, if they lose an election & Reform (or a reform/tory combo) get in, god help us all

Well that’s what it is with the CBHIC plus another 4K a year deducted for student loan (for studies he would not have been able to get this job without). Please tell me how you think we can increase our income further when childcare costs are £110 a day (term time) for a baby and 2 school age children???? We wouldn’t be stuck as if he were not working then I would be doing a higher paid job ( I have 2 degrees and professional qualifications) and we would be eligible for UC etc, I have been in that situation before and it made little difference with all the new things suddenly eligible for

You honestly believe that your children have significantly less than most children in the uk? They have birthday gifts, parties, swimming lessons, music lessons, cubs and clubs, family trips out to the national trust, visit relatives, have clothes for dressing up…
4.5 million children live in poverty
https://cpag.org.uk/news/child-poverty-statistics-new-record-high-and-further-breakdowns#:~:text=Today's%20Households%20Below%20Average%20Income,children%20are%20living%20in%20poverty.
are you really this clueless?

I would find your far left dystopian world

😂😂😂😂😂

I’m far from far left.

Do a bit of googling and I thing you will find the take home pay for those with families with a higher earner on 60-80k is significantly less than 50% of their earnings.

it is disrespectful to offer a supposed statement of fact without sharing your source. “Google it” is a crap argument. I shared a credible source for earlier claims I made………

Someone on 60-80k will never lose more than half to tax and NI. If you’re including student loans and pensions, well, you’re pushing the definition of tax (giving those are optional in a way that tax and NI aren’t).

To add @AmIHumanOrAmIAYeti we are also insured up to the hilt

Why should the OP work more?

How about the workshy starting to work?

CBHIC is a repayment, not a tax. See also student loans.

@Bess34, you seem to be having an arguement with yourself here

I'm concerned about the recent proposed surcharge of up to 4 times council tax on properties in bands F, G and H. We are 1 BR tax payer and 1 FT carer with their own health issues in a band G property. We have no spare bedrooms to downsize, and would resent having to! We can afford our life now, but couldn't if this proposal comes in. The option of rolling up the surcharge until we sell could be many tens of thousands if we wait until the children have moved out. We like our house and thought we'd be in it for a long time. Even a 2 x surcharge would be over £7k a year extra and a massive problem. I thought a bit on income tax for all and sharing the pain was fairer than going after a much smaller number of people to the extent that you might be forcing them out of their homes and wrecking carefully made financial plans.