How much is reasonable to charge a parent in board?

[wildflower93]

Hi!

I’m looking for some advice and opinions on a reasonable amount for my mother to charge my elderly grandmother as a contribution for moving in with her.

For context, my Nan and grandad lived abroad for many years after selling their home. They moved back and rented. Recently, my granddad died and my Nan has been diagnosed with dementia which is rapidly getting worse. She calls my mother from 5am in the morning into the early hours of the night. She hates being alone but struggles as she doesn't want to leave my grandad (a cushion of him ☹️)

My mum works full time (sometimes 70 hours a week) and still manages to see and support my Nan everyday. She provides at least 5 of her evening meals. I would say it’s akin to an additional job. They are very close and since my grandad passed, my mum has been begging her to move in. She has finally agreed.

My mum rents with my retired father and their bills are around £2000 per month including food.

My nan’s are around £1200 as she never has her heating off.

My mum’s bills will inevitably increase in all areas when she moves but I foresee her heating bill going up by around £200 a month.

What is a reasonable amount for my mother to ask as a contribution? This number would include food, council tax, gas and electric, water etc.

I initially struggled with your newly bereaved grandmother being charged anything at all but of course real life is expensive and your mum clearly can't afford another person. Could you Grandma move in and after a month your parents see how much more they've had to spend and ask for that?

£1000 pm.

Your mum is giving up a lot for your nan.

Hi!

I think that's a bit how my mum feels too. It has been 3 years nearly. It's rubbish but sadly, my mum and dad were victims of Northern Rock and no longer own their homes and my dad is on a government pension! My Nan is on a considerable pension and PIP. My dad should be on PIP but retired before he realised he was entitled and is no not eligible.

My mum and dad make ends meet, but that's about it. They really don't want to charge but in all honesty, her moving in will have a huge impact financially as she is like royalty 😆

@wildflower93 im not criticising so apologise if I upset you. If your grandma is unwell will it be seem that she understands the contributing? It would be awful if your parents were accused of taking advantage.

Your DGM should cheerfully pay £1200 as that is what it costs her now,dementia not withstanding. I f she has been diagnosed with dementia she may well be needing to go into a care home. Your mother is not her carer she is her
loving daughter and should do what is best for her mother- a fair cost for her upkeep and a fair deal to be looked after professionally when her dementia overrules everything. I’m old and I read some dreadful things on here what demands some parents make on their daughters.

No definitely- not offended at all!
And that's exactly what I want to avoid for them.

My parents probably pay more towards her food bill currently than she does as she doesn't like to part with money. Coffees, meals out etc my mum just pays for an easy life.

She's currently in a phase of thinking everyone is stealing from her. My sister lives in Australia and my nan keeps saying she's nipped in and stolen a vase or her make up so it's hard to communicate this with her so we're all going to have an open discussion as a family.

My mum has spent hundreds doing up the spare room for her including new bed and furniture to make the move easier for her.

They're good people with the best hearts: she will never make another cup or tea or have to do her washing again in her life. Sadly, they're not rich people so can't afford to charge nothing

It's currently manageable at the moment. My Nan has always been very glamorous and 'young'. Her and my grand were never in the country and always travelling the world until he fell ill.

It's truly heartbreaking and my mum states she will never see in her in a home. My Nan may very well have to use her savings for additional support and care in the future. We understand that dementia can truly be devastating so I think a big part of that is being taken into account in not wanting her to continue spending £1k+ on bills in the eventuality a care home is needed as a very last resort.

If your mum is an only child, I would consider charging £1,200 (the same as she currently pays) to help mitigate inheritance tax when the time comes.

Maintaining simple routine activities like making tea or folding laundry are pretty important for elderly people to maintain mental and physical health, so if she is able to do these things she should continue doing them, although I understand the sentiment, that she will be incredibly well cared for when she moves in. With your mum.

you do realise that since your mum willingly is going to care for your gran you are yourself lined up for doing similar for your parents….
:)

my mum states she will never see in her in a home

Please don't let your Mum back herself into this corner. Dementia is a horrible, horrible disease and each person has their own pathway. My Mum was a wanderer and up for much of the night and trust me my Dad tried but he couldn't cope with no sleep. At some point someone will have to be with her constantly so is your DF happy to do this, or will your Mum give up work ?

They can claim attendance allowance which will help with the financial situation, and they may be eligible for a council house discount too. There maybe other benefits they can claim. Totally agree she should be paying towards extra heating, food costs as well as 'rent'.

I suggest your Mum makes contact with the local Age UK or Alzheimer's UK group - such a useful source of support and local information. Whilst she can, get your Gran going to day centres and other groups - My Mum loved the music group.

How accessible is their bathroom ? Is there a separate loo or in the bathroom. may seem an odd question, but separate loos are really difficult for assisting someone. Is there a loo downstairs ? They will need to think through how their home can be adapted so they can manage.

I'd check out what it costs to rent a room in a shared house near your mum and go for something like that.

It will be more than their additional costs but less than her current outgoings.

My mum lives with us in our home

When she and late departed Step dad moved in we shared household costs 4 ways - rates, electric, oil - it being OUR house we didn't want them paying towards mortgage ( now paid ) and they saw to them selves for food and beverages

Now its just mum, I cook for her daily, she buys her personal bits, and she pays half for the rates, oil and electric

She pays half because we wouldn't be using a third of the oil and electric if she weren't here, we both work Even paying half of all the utilities, she's financially better off as she has no upkeep of a house - its our house, we maintain it., she just has to hoover and dust her own rooms - she has two bedrooms, a bathroom and sitting room of her own and have shared use of the kitchen/diner and gardens

DH also maintains her car

Mum is getting richer by the month

Be honest about how much it really is costing and charge accordingly Be totally honest and don't go the route of " oh its family" Look at how much care homes cost

Mum spends very very little living with us - £1k for half the rates, electric bills are around £500 a quarter - so another grand? And oil - well that depends on the weather , but be generous and say 1.5k - 3.5k a year - plus her own personal costs - car, toiletries etc - and she's in the 40% tax bracket because of pensions, savings and investments. We are OK with this because she has also put money into investing if she does need a nursing home - we won't be needing to fund any of that ourselves

If the sum your mum comes up with is a lot lower then nan is already paying to stay independent, perhaps your mum can look at have some of the excess invested so there is the spare to get a carer as and when needed? When step dad was in his later years, we paid for a carer to come in and bathe him twice a week when it suited us, rather then being at the beck and call of an agency for example

£1200. Your mum might as well have it because it's no use to your grandma.

Well worth contacting age uk for advice- and apply for attendance allowance with their help to help cover costs.

Nan needs to come with paying for household help cooking cleaning shopping elderly care etc as well as contributions to energy bills
Your mum will soon be up every night with nan. Will she manage that and working?

not For your gran but just because your dad is retired doesn’t mean he can’t apply for PIP if he is under 70. If he is over 70 he can apply for attendance allowance

Can your Dad claim Attendance Allowance? I know you mentioned earlier about being unable to claim PIP so this might be a useful alternative to help out. Also if your parents income is low it might be worth applying to the council for help with their Council Tax. Some councils also have additional funding for other things.

Does you Mum have any siblings or anyone else likely to be put out over the amount your Mum charges or anyone else likely to inherit?

Does your Mum have lasting power of attorney for your grans finances?

It's reasonable for your Mum to charge what it is going to cost her. I'd make sure I document everything though.

Honestly, if she is accusing people of stealing things it sounds like she is deep in Alzheimer’s :( that’s not an easy ride at all for the carer. I’d have no qualms at all in charging a decent amount for board, supervision and care -and get it properly documented so you don’t get accused of deliberate deprivation of capital.

It sounds like the Nan rents, so IHT is unlikely to be a consideration.

A benefit check definitely needs to be done for Nan. As it sounds like money is tight in the OPs parents household and Nan doesn't need access to a significant amount of money, the amount should at least cover her food, and extra costs relating to heating, laundry, showering etc.

Say £500 pm as a minimum, more if there are significant transport costs eg extra trips for groceries/medication/medical appointments that use fuel, parking, wear and tear on the car or taxis.

However, the 'rent a room' tax free allowance might also be a consideration - I don't know if there are any implications if they go over that, even if it can be demonstrated that a good portion of the money is for the benefit of the 'lodger' alone, so not profit as such.

I was coming on just to say this - my gran started being adamant people were stealing from her (proved not the case), it then progressed to going out and leaving the door open, forgetting where she lived (often turning up at her childhood home) and finally refusing medications / treatment after a fall (broken hip).

I'd be factoring in some decent dementia home care help - as her condition might be manageable at the moment but it can deteriorate quickly. And if not already actioned I'd look into whether she can instruct two Lasting Power of Attorneys - one covering money / property and the other welfare / health. It will depend if she can still make coherent decisions, if not then I think you have to seek a different POA .

I'd charge what it costs to have her living with you, primarily the cost of heating, food, something towards petrol if she's likely to need lifts and whatever it costs to upgrade the room she'll be in, ie new curtains, bedding, furniture etc.

So here it'd be the £200pm extra heating, £100pm extra food (somehow we eat very cheaply compared to many at £25pmpw) and say £50pm for petrol, initial outlay on getting her room together.

Dont ask on here only. Do it properly. Is the authorities aware she has dementia and is going to be looked after ?

You need a long term solution. What will you do when her money runs out

Your nan and mum need to claim attendance and Carers allowance also. I would say £1200 and review after 3 months as there may be unknown costs.