General life is different to years ago

[kmr24]

Hello,

I'm just thinking of how everything thing has changed over the past 5 years . No one has a lot of disposable income , rent and food is higher and just general things are not the same... I've heard taxes are going up now also! I feel low with it all and I need to find a new house I've been in for 10 years as the landlord wants to sell and I can't find anywhere to rent. And the council have a very long waiting list. There's a lot of people in this boat it's sad how we have to live like this.will the climate ever change or is this how it is now?

I am of the Boomer generation and I can tell you by today's standards life in the 60's/70's was much tougher. No showers/fridges/telephones/inside toilets and I grew up in a slum before it was condemned because the housing stock was so dilapidated. The thing is no one had any money and we all lived the same - with nothing. I still live a very frugal live style and don't understand the consumerism of today.

So I definitely agree with the point about new cars - I have looked into them and it seems to me to be an enormous amount of money. And to some extent the points about sofas/buying all new.

But things like owning a fridge/mobile phone/TV - if you fill your entire house with gadgets with multiple TVs and sound bars and tablets and so on and so forth then this can sort of stack up.

But the comparative cost of a single TV as a proportion of salary is such that that sort of thing is a totally different prospect from even 30 years ago.

A mobile phone is pretty close to being essential to being able to manage to interact with services etc today.

And at the same time house prices have gone up so managing with a bicycle would be for a decade not a year or two. And those house prices going up often mean people are commuting further to work, meaning it's harder to use a bike for that.

So I think to some extent it is an expectations thing, but I think mainly people prioritise "shorter term" pleasures because deferred gratification becomes more and more unrealistic when you're deferring that gratification by a decade and therefore potentially watching 1/3-1/4 of your working life vanish into that deferred gratification.

Some people who have quoted me in their posts seems to have made a judgement that I'm older than I am. I'm fairly young still. Under 40.

I am not making judgements or saying these are better ways at all- but I think expectations of absolutely everything have changed so much that we've normalised it and don't even realise

Another example is the natural assumption that everyone will go to university nowadays. That accrues massive debt and means buying a home and starting a family gets naturally delayed.

There seems to be a general looking down on people that are say in trades - plumbers and electricians etc are highly skilled and earn very well. They also have the added ability to transfer those skills to doing things to their own homes (and will usually have mates in allied trades to help with the other stuff) that literally saves thousands and thousands. Most white collar professionals have no clue (or time) to do this work and will outsource it at great cost.

Only a couple of decades ago, only people that excelled at school went to uni. Now its expected that pretty much all kids will as a given. It extends childhood, dependency and 'getting in the adult world' much later.

Both women and men now are expected to have careers, doesn't work so well for parenting. In comes the thousands of pounds of childcare costs.

I'm not saying this is true of everyone or knocking university level education (I have it myself) but I do think this morph in mindset and expectation has a knock on effect. Times were much simpler before. People had their roles in society and some things about that worked.

Now we're all sold the equivalent of the American dream - you can have it all! ...

As a side note to add to my last post. We had building work done a while ago. The young man who was a qualified bricky, was 20yrs old, had been with his girlfriend for a few years, they were married, had a baby and owned their own home in a fairly decent area. Some of the most financially stable people I've met have been in trades.

Our kids are bright but we've spoken how there's many options when you leave school to build a career, including trades, apprenticeships, as well as university.

I’d say there’s more shops around now, and they open for longer. Back in the day, they closed at 5.30pm weekdays and on Sundays. Now even the smallest shop opens everyday, and ‘til late.

Yes this is true. We didn't have a landline until I was in late primary. I'd forgotten that! I remember getting it now you mention it, and it was rented from BT, not bought.

One of my landlords is a plumber. He worked in a bank for years then decided he wanted a change and became an apprentice. He loves the work, no two days are the same, and the money is good. Apparently there is a shortage of plumbers, even though it would be an excellent career choice for young people.

When I was at secondary school very few people went to uni, now, as you said, kids are pointed in that direction. The only thing that seems to have achieved is cheapen the worth of degrees, and start young people out with a load of debt.

Well I'm not sure that's true. In the 70s/80s people didn't go out as much as we do now. A takeaway or restaurant meal was only on special occasions such as birthdays. We only went to the cinema rarely. Most of the time we went to see relatives or went out to free places taking packed lunch.

This. The change to expectations is not anyone's fault it's because of growing up with increased living standards and we are constantly being told by marketers and, more recently, influencers that our lives will be better if only we had more stuff. This raises the bar in society and if you don't have all the things everyone else seems to have you feel hard done by (which is why countries with a larger wealth inequality gap are more miserable). My DS is a great example. He is pretty frugal as it goes and budgets but gets frustrated and down as he sees his colleagues affording multiple foreign holidays a year which he can't do. It's likely they are getting these on credit, or they've made other different lifestyle choices to be able to afford them, but all people see is the holidays, or nails, or new car, or latest phone or whatever.

Even people constantly renovating their houses, buying new furniture etc. It's a very consumerist society now. What people also don't understand it's its fashion!! My house is now looking dated as the last update was about 15 years ago, most people would've updated it by now. Not only is it a complete waste if money, but it's terrible for the environment

@Itsjustmeheretoday

"But that is actually the problem. So now its all subscriptions which is actually a mugs game, because you don't own anything. And now clothes are dirt cheap but food is exorbitant. The quality if things is getting worse and worse, yet overall the price is creeping up. We've slept walked into this situation and it's going to get much worse"

Absolutely! Everybody wants you set up a bloody subscription for something. I don't know how they think people can afford all these random subscriptions!

And yes you can't even choose to pay more to get quality any more. It used to be that you could pay a bit more for something from M&S or John Lewis and buy a quality item that would likely last you years. Now even you pay more it's still crap and falls apart within a few years. Meaning you need to constantly buying new things. Great from a company's perspective but terrible for us and terrible for the environment.

I had to laugh when my washing machine engineer explained that the reason my new washing machine was made with poorer quality materials than my previous one (equivalent models) was because all materials now had to be recyclable! Surely the first rule of recycling, is don't need to replace it in the first place! Not make more of our products with crap materials so that they need constantly replacing! This seems like very short sighted thinking.

This. This is what is causing the cost of living crisis. But people are being diverted from the real cause as usual as they are being told it's immigrants or benefit claimants or whoever the latest scapegoat is. The real issue here is the super rich, who have been getting richer and richer all through the pandemic and cost of living crisis (and for years previously) while everyone else has been getting poorer and poorer. I don't mind people doing well for themselves but not when it's at the expense of everyone else, pushing us all into poverty so they can have more money than they know what to do with.

Yep and the main cause of this is that we have a productivity problem in the U.K. economy. We’re not generating enough income to the net economy. This is not a new phenomenon- this has been known to me for about 15 years and I have been waiting for the impact to be felt. It’s only going to get worse with an ageing and unhealthy population.

Not the 90s I know. I grew up in south London in the 90s and everyone I knew had cars, all my neighbours, my family and friends. We also hand landlines, I spoke to hours on the phone to my friends and we didn’t have our TV on lease in fact we also had Sky.

You clearly grew up a lot wealthier than I did

There are a lot more things available to pay for now. In years gone by I just wanted mtv and my parents to get sky. It we probably just 1 package deal then. Now it's sky basic + hd/muitl boxes/netflix/disney/ extra channels/sports/BT sports. Plus so many other options to subscribe for. On top bills/rent or mortgage/food

I've been on several MN decor threads, and my house seems to be full of MN decor crimes mainly because a lot of our decor and furniture is 10+ years old, 20+ years old in some cases.

Brown leather sofas were(are?) A big no no....but possibly have become acceptable again. We have a brown leather sofa that is about 24 years old, it has survived all manner of "substance abuse" (for want of a better phrase) that a fabric one probably wouldn't have, although the sofa we all prefer sitting on is a second hand one we bought about 10 years ago for £75 (its also brown leather)

Several people I know, sold or got rid of their furniture when they moved house and bought all new for the new house. To me that seemed fairly wasteful and an unnecessary expense, although the people are wealthy and could afford it comfortably.

One thing I do think though is that white goods seem to be designed not to last as long as in previous generations. I barely remember my parents getting a new fridge, but the one we had before our current one, only lasted about 3 years (and, we had it repaired twice in that time). When we moved into our house 19 years ago there was an old fashioned 1980s kitchen. We replaced it after about 3 years of living here, but we kept the dishwasher (that was several years old) it lasted probably another 5 years, but we're on our 3rd replacement one - admittedly one of the replacements were 2nd hand

We only went to the cinema rarely.

We went to the cinema far more when I was little than now, and my parents used to go loads in the 50/60s-I actually think cinema tickets are much more expensive compared to wages now than they’ve ever been.

I am probably a few years younger than you (crossover Boomer/Generation X). I know a few people still had outside toilets, but no-one l knew. We lived in a modern house and had the mod cons of the day. However, ŵe had one phone (landline) rented from BT and calls were expensive. There was a different area code for local calls and distance (trunk) calls, which were made after 6 pm when it was cheaper. Even so, each call was charged by the minute. I can remember my parents saving for a lounge carpet - until then we had a tiled floor with rugs. Carpets were generally taken with you when you moved house in the seventies. We had a rented black and white television with three channels until the end of 1975 when my Dad bought a colour set. My Mother had a twin tub washing machine until the late seventies when they were able to afford an automatic machine and they had a freezer around the same time. Holidays were a week in this country and the family car was generally elderly and none too reliable. We had far fewer clothes, too. Food was good but usually plain and traditional. Spaghetti came out of a tin for most people until around 1979. Inflation was far higher in the seventies early eighties, too. Only around 10% of the population studied for degrees. Our parents were children in the forties and early fifties and were used to rationing and make do and mend and taught us to be careful. I was married in 1989 and, although we had more than our parents had when they were first married, we didn't have many of the things people today take for granted. We bought them when we could afford them. We have always bought a lot of things secondhand, which gives us our own style. Our daughter, after house sharing for several years, has just moved into her first flat. She has the thrift bug, too, and is very pleased that the vast majority of her things are secondhand. Not only was it a lot cheaper but, as she says, she has her unique style without having the identikit Ikea furnishings of most of her generation.

Yes low productivity, low growth and low wages. A lethal combination for the vast majority of the population.

I totally agree . I use a tumble dryer a lot due to having 2 children with complex needs. I invested in a heat pump one 2 yrs ago as it was the best way to cut the bills but also better for the environment.
Anyway it died a couple of months ago after 2 yrs . I got the repairer out who said the heat pump itself had gone and that cannot be replaced so I have had to scrap the whole thing and get a new one. So v good for the environment ...not ! And not good for my wallet either.

Someone up thread touched upon only going to dinner/cinema as a rare treat etc . It was the same for me growing up as a child.

But like another poster, we were always round our aunt's/uncles/grandparents/cousins. I think we've totally lost that sense of community now. Possibly a knock on effect of everyone having children in their late 30s or 40s, grandparents and aunts etc are either old, frail or not alive , especially if that occurs for a couple of generations.

I grew up working class but would be classed as 'middle class' by career/lifestyle now technically if you believe in those hierarchies. But being on both ends, I know what lifestyle probably brings the most pure happiness..(it's working class parents that drilled into me not to ever get things on finance etc )

Yes this in spades. We pay for everything now. Socialising used to be free or v v cheap. Cups of tea round someone's house. Children playing in the corner or asleep under a pile of coats somewhere nearby. Now it's going out to dinner in a restaurant, or for drinks in a bar with babysitting costs and cabs home. Children were a pleasure (and "poor man's wealth") - now they are an expensive cost. Children would meet at each others houses or in the park to hang out and chat - now they "need" phones and xboxes to socialise. Local friends are a rarity as kids often travel to school. Local family is becoming rarer as we are pushed to leave our local areas in search of work or education (how many young people go away to uni and then never return to their childhood area). Travel costs money and time, so we end up paying out more money to fill those gaps that family and chilldhood friends would have filled (casual childcare, low-cost socialising, cooperation and sharing of skills/items).

The 50% of young people to uni target has played a big part in the fragmentation (and subsequent monetisation) of social networks. The cynic in me wonders how much of that was an intended consequence.

Expectations are so much higher now. I was born mid 60s. Grew up in suburban new build semi. My parents had started married life moving around and in rented because my dad was in RN. Young couples then were prepared to start life in rented flats often over a shop with bits of furniture given by family. My cousin who is same age as me started his married life in about 1990 in new build and maxed out to buy all new stuff. Economic disaster when interest rates hit 15% meant he and his wife were unable to pay the mortgage and the lender claimed the property back. My aunt had the couple to live with them (until they split up), but she pointed out that had they not rushed out to buy everything new they might not have lost the house. I think that what people now regard as essentials is frankly ridiculous. Nails and beauty treatments are a luxury in my book. Repeatedly changing furniture just because you fancy a change is wasteful and doesn't actually make anyone happier. Children do not need to be taken to places of entertainment every day. I used to spend at least half my summer holidays at home reading, playing in the garden or with local friends each spending a morning in different houses or gardens. My mum did not drive. If she had gone on the bus to town and hadn't got home when I walked from primary school which was three minutes walk from home, I knew of about 4 neighbours I could go to and wait there until she got home. If people just looked at what is really essential they might realise how well off they really are.

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