Work more, or move?

[rainbowduplo]

Looking for opinions and ideas on how we can organise our family lives and finances better (me, DS, DS5 and DD2).

DH works full time, we live on his salary. He's usually out from 8am-6pm. Minimal annual leave entitlement. I WFH 16 hours in a very flexible job which means I cover pick ups, drop offs, playdates, swimming lessons etc. During term times DD goes to childcare 2 days a week and I work. During the holidays I fit my hours in during the evenings so I'm around with the kids. Historically my salary = the childcare bill. We've been counting down to DD getting free hours, but the cost of living crises is already swallowing that extra money. We've been using savings to get by until her funding kicked in, and they're basically gone. We have no family. I've asked about increasing my hours but it isn't an option.

We're just about making ends meet having cut back across the board (swimming lessons are the last standing luxury and even they're on the chopping block), and feel like we need to make a change. The plan was for me to do this job until DD is 5, and then I'd go back to work FT. But we hadn't factored in the cost of living crises which is just making everything a squeeze. So wondering if we should be making a change now rather than scrimping for the next 3 years, and maybe beyond. But the solutions all seem to have problems attached. Perhaps you've been in a similar boat and can offer your experience.

The options we've come up with so far are:

1. I go back to FT work - feasibly I double my salary doing this. But we worked out that by the time we'd increased the childcare for DD, and paid for breakfast club, after school club, holiday clubs for DS that we'd take home something like an additional £150-200 per month. When you consider i'd be working working an extra 21 hours a week it works out that I'd be making £2.50 an hour. DD would have to change settings to one which is much less convenient to get to. Plus losing all the perks of WFH PT (time to do chores during the week etc so keep the weekends free for family time). I've no idea how to get a higher paid job. However, by getting on the ladder now it's likely that in the years to come my salary will increase incrementally, plus paying into pension etc, so there are longer term benefits to working more.
2. I get a second job - would need to be evenings and weekends, which again means much less time with the kids. Also not sure how this would work in the holidays as I basically work my current hours in the evenings then already. However, could work?! I've found one flexible job, maybe there's another!
3. Move to a cheaper area of the country. We live in a relatively affluent area and have quite a bit of equity in our house (but don't want to remortgage right now as we did it just before the interest rates went nuts and are keen to keep it as low as possible). If we moved to a significantly cheaper house, porting the mortgage, we'd gain a lump sum of money which we could use to pay off various debts, overpay on the mortgage (shortening the term) and use for day to day spends. Cost of living would be less overall, but our jobs are remote so our income wouldn't change. Seems like we'd be getting a better quality of life in the long run, though a huge upheaval in the short term.

DH is leaning heavily towards option 3. Then I can keep being around with the smalls for another few years until DD is established in school and old enough to be able to go to holiday clubs etc when needed (most start from age 5 around here, and that's not even for a full day). I'm struggling to disagree with him, but I love our life here so just want to make sure we've thought about everything before making such a huge leap. Trying to consider all the pros and cons of each option.

What would you do? Is there a 4th option I've not worked out yet?

What support network do you have where you are? Do you have grandparents, siblings etc?

Even if it's only occasional childcare, don't underestimate the value of that.

What job prospects would you have in a new area if your current remote roles end?

I think looking online is often misleading. It might say Harrogate but if it's in your price bracket it will be on a main road or not in the catchment for decent schools, back on to an abattoir . The kind of things not revealed to you online.

Of course there are cheaper areas. I live in one of the cheapest parts of country about 600 miles north of you. But if you want an extra bed (so four bed) and a garage you'd be a minimum 250k because once you get into larger houses they generally come with bigger plots, aren't terraced etc). Yes it's less but once you account for solicitors fees, stamp duty, moving costs, it may not be as transformative as you think.

I'm not saying don't do it. Just do it for the right reasons. Run to something and not away from a problem. And with your eyes open and be realistic. I can show you a lovely six bed detached for offers over 150k but it won't show you the dual carriageway about two meters away or the cars that regularly end up in the garden.

I'd move. You have said your jobs can move, you've no family, so what's keeping you there?
My kids are adults/teens now, and you really can not get back that time with them. I know it's probably not a very feminist thing to say, but I honestly believe there's nothing better than spending time with your children. So, if you're in a.postion to move and allow both of you a good work-life balance, then do it.

Option 4 is to downsize and compromise. So the kids share a room, you go from semi or detached to terraced, you lose the garage, you have a smaller garden.

Personally, space is crucial for me, so I would move somewhere cheaper.

You definitely need to do a reccy and get on the road as much as possible, we have looked at several places that look good on paper but just ‘feel’ awful when you get there in person.

I know nothing about Newcastle except the coast up there is meant to be lovely.

Most of North Yorkshire does not have big towns or cities, those that do aren’t massively affordable. 400k in Harrogate will buy you something of a half decent size but you will probably have a yard instead of a garden and no parking (I have a huge aversion to new builds, idk what those are like in the area).

We almost bought on the outskirts of Middlesbrough due to house prices two years ago. I didn’t feel happy driving through there and four separate people have since pulled faces at me when I told them I almost moved to Middlesbrough. It’s one of those places that is regularly listed as one of the cheapest places in the country to live… for a reason? Idk. We didn’t really spend that much time there. Those reactions were a bit disturbing, I feel like we dodged a bullet. I have noticed prices are now going up there, presumably because everyone has heard how cheap it is, and the North is running out of big towns that are also affordable.

You could consider Carlisle where prices are still reasonable. And County Durham: Darlington is a big town that has a lot of government offices moving there, Bishop Auckland is meant to be a bit run down but it does actually have shops and is REALLY reasonable for house prices. These are not ‘naice’ places in MN terms, they are liveable places because they have amenities. I quite like County Durham. Lots of pretty hills and castles and a bit of Moors, and quaint villages like Barnard Castle. The castle near Staindrop has deer running free in the grounds! Middleton St George just outside Darlington seems to often have reasonably priced family sized homes. Never been there though. Check what’s happening with the nearby airport if noise is a consideration.

Sorry I can’t help a jot re: schools.

Your OH should look at Scottish taxes before continuing to flirt with that idea. Also, the council tax bands in some places seem really harsh, e.g. a band G for a 1450 sq for, 3 bed flat (in Peebles, a desirable village, apparently). Scots also pay more for petrol and electricity.

Once you have made a decision, if it’s an area switch you decide on, pop a post in Property/DIY to narrow down options on some places.

We spent a lot of time looking at N Yorks. 2 years, in fact. Feel free to pop me a message with questions on any places you have in mind as long as it doesn’t pertain to schooling.

Bath to Middlesbrough is going to be a very big move in lots of ways. It’s cheaper for a reason!

can you take on more hours with your current role? That flexibility is amazing. I’d be more tempted to try and do a second job rather than moving if you love the area.

DS lives in Jarrow, is now moving to Manchester.
Newcastle is just amazing, the beaches in South Shields are perfect, as are the beaches north of the river. There is tons to do and wonderful places to go.

Maybe the 4th option is for your DH to find another job that is better paid and/or doesn't have so much travel so he can do more of the childcare and you can work your hours around him? If he is out from 8-6, travels a lot and has minimal annual leave but you are struggling to survive on his salary then is his job paid enough? He could get a new job, work compacted hours so you gain a day where you can work more, or reduce his hours so you can pick up more hours. Also have you checked if you are entitled to any benefits or help with childcare?

All of your options seem to be a big upheaval and lots of work and bending over backwards for you, plus leaving a home you don't want to leave, while your DH stays exactly the same.

I have lived in a few places and now in West Yorkshire. I think having remote jobs and not having to worry about finding a new one takes a massive stress load off. Normally I would say rent somewhere to get a feel and gain local knowledge but if you can port your mortgage that would be beneficial.

If you name an actual smaller area you are considering rather than a generic Harrogate or Middleborough etc and put that in your thread title on Property/DIY or Chat people will wade in with their opinion on the best parts of it.

I would definitely do it. Lots of people stay where they were born or where they went to uni but Dh and I have lived in a few places together. The best move is the one before school applications deadlines, you want to be in as early as possible so ask about schools too. Dh was driving round to get a feel of an area and was checking out a local school (pre-google maps) and a man and woman pulled up in a car and the woman got out to take the child into school mid morning. Dh asked the chap whether he liked the school he said it's okay but if you want an incredible school then you want X and even showed Dh on a ordnance survey map (remember those) where it was. And that reader was the school we chose and we moved into their catchment.

Dog walkers and pensioners are very forthcoming with information on areas. We just asked people we saw out and about what they thought of the place when we were initially looking. Northerners are talkers, I am one just not from Yorkshire but I love it here. That was 20 years ago.

I don't know why anyone would suggest full time or working evenings and weekends when you could just move areas and remove a massive burden of the mortgage.

We did option 3 - London to south Wales, back in 2018. Best thing we could have done for finances, work/life balance and quality of life. Haven’t looked back.

It sounds like your DH is under paid for the time commitment/ minimal annual leave. Can he do something about that?

Can you work a 12 hour weekend shift in a care home every weekend? Or waitressing on a Saturday night?

I think I’m with @TotalDramarama24 , if you are happy and settled where you are why would you put yourself through all the stress of moving just for slightly more money for a few years. You should both try to maximise your income from promotions and possibly, for you, a few more hours at work, not necessarily full time.

What’s the rush to pay off your mortgage? You won’t qualify for your state pension until 67 plus. If you both work remotely why is DH out 8-6 with lots of travel? If he has his way you would be stuck somewhere remote with the children and he would be away with work. I also hate to point out, but should either of you become unemployed or your marriage fails, there won’t be many opportunities in the back of beyond.

Thanks for taking the time to reply to me :) here are my answers to your questions:

• If you can call planning to pay it off in 15 years rather than 25 a rush...I suppose the answer is because every year it earns interest. And because we'd like to be planning to have more disposable income when the children are at a stage of going to uni or getting on the property ladder so we could be in a position to assist. I don't really understand why anyone wouldn't want to be paying off their mortgage? We're not in a position to overpay or save in this current set up, so just trying to weigh up if it's a sensible option to continue being here
• Appreciate there was a lot in my post, but I have said increasing my hours within my current job isn't an option. I have asked, but times are tight for the business.
• DH doesn't go to 'an office', he travels with his work and is therefore often out of the house early, back late and can stay overnight. He also works from home. Should we move we would likely be closer to the areas he travels to most often (North East), so the overnights would decrease and he'd be around more.
• It's incredible to me how many people assume that moving to the north means you'll be living in a barren wasteland. It's happened on several threads I've read in the last few weeks! We've not been talking about the back of beyond, we've been talking about towns and cities in the north of England, of which there are many bustling and cosmopolitan options. I do appreciate though the wages there are less, so when I want to change jobs the overall income will be less. Though I feel this would be offset by the fact we'd have a lower overall cost of living and be paying less interest on our mortgage over the term of it.
• To me releasing £80k+ (after moving costs) is a life changing amount of money, it's not 'slightly' more money. When I go back to work and we're not paying childcare costs £80k will take me 3-4 years to earn. Not even to save, just to earn! Can't even imagine how long it would take me to save that amount. So that feels like it's worth at least giving due consideration to, which is what this post was about.

Hope that explains why I started the post at least. We're trying to pragmatically think through our options, which feels like a sensible thing to do every now and again.

The villages outside Hull are nice and not too expensive. Not many jobs here but if the jobs are remote then that is not an issue and you are quite close to the seaside (and free museums).

Wouldn’t it be better to reduce your mortgage by the 80k rather than have 80k in savings?

For me paying extra into a pension was far better than shortening the mortgage term.

Absolutely, would be used to pay off debts, overpay on the mortgage, plus put some into investments and savings and subsidise a few more years of me working PT to be at home with the smalls until they're established in school (youngest is currently 2)

But in order to unlock the 80k we'd need to sell this house and buy a cheaper one which is where the thread started. Houses we're looking at are anything up to £150k cheaper than the one we're living in, which means even after moving costs we'd have a lot left over.

Have you thought of Sheffield? I'm moving there from London, also wfh and completely mobile. I tried thinking of everywhere in England and to me it fitted the boxes of being a large city, having a lot of greenery and woodland, good transport links and diverse enough that you can be accepted (in time). If i were you I'd buy a fairly modest house while the children are so young and do your best to be as mortgage free as possible. That would save living costs significantly. Weirdly the online prices for Sheffield houses are 17-30% more than displayed.

i’d do both 2 and 3. Move to a cheaper part of the country, pay off debt, etc AND take an evening / weekend job for a few hours a week to build up some savings

Don't move to Middlesbrough from Bath...its rough as guts.

However some of the outlying areas are lovely - think Stokesley, Yarm, even Northallerton or Guisborough etc.

I don't think I would move while the children are tiny. If you don't have any family then your lovely set up in an affluent area with good local friends is invaluable. Of course you will make new friends but this all takes time and effort.

You haven't said why your DH can't change to a local or higher paid job but that's what I would be prioritising. You could also consider going interest only on your current house for a couple of years and then looking to return to repayment and overpaying when you are working full time again.

There are plus points to moving but also a lot of negative reasons. Once you have left and moved away it will be virtually impossible to move back again. You are looking at your house as a millstone and talking about unlocking the money, but a nice house in Bath will increase in value much more than a cheaper house up North, so by the time your children do need help with university you will be able to sell and downsize and release a substantial amount of money if you want to.

You are talking about using the equity money for investments, but there are not many investments better than a three bed house in an affluent area. Your mortgage will eventually start to reduce and the house value will continue to increase but if you buy a cheap house in a cheap area then it is cheap for a reason and unlikely to appreciate much in value.

It's a difficult decision and good reasons for and against both options but for me I would try to increase earnings, possibly change to interest only for a set period and try to clear off debts with the spare money, as if you can clear the debts that will give you more money to live on.

I agree with pp on not releasing money from your house for investments, it doesn't make financial sense. Paying off debts makes sense and being as mortgage free as possible which will ease your budget. I think your children will adapt more easily now and it'll be harder on them the older they get.

Thanks all for the replies. This thread has voiced both sides of the coin, as much as my own internal monologue does, and offered some interesting insights we might not have previously considered.

A higher paid job for him would mean going up a tax band. If I could match his earnings then we'd be fine with all the holiday/after school clubs etc, but the jobs I've done to date have been significantly lower pay, which is why it seemed to make more sense for me to stay home and save on childcare. But I hadn't thought about occasional shift work, so thanks to those who suggested that.

After all the research and everything else my OH admitted last night he's dreading the thought of moving and leaving our home. We just feel financially backed into a corner and trying to weigh up options. It won't be something we embark on lightly, if we do do it.

Why don't you look at Wales? Usually cheaper than England even just over the border and you could stay close-ish to friends/family in the south.

I read a good article a few years ago about giving things a go with these kind of decisions. Eg renting house out for a year and renting in location A or B (makes it easier with the school deadlines too, not being caught in a chain which won't move to timescale, but not irrevocable if you hate it);
or doing a few shifts in a carehome now, and seeing how it feels, so you have more evidence to base things on (and more flex in the system).

Some thoughts from me:
you're basing quite alot on your remote jobs continuing long term. Definitely move close to a bigger city where you could find similar locally, if one were to go out of business.
Agree with those above about lots seeming on your partner's terms, and if you do more hours paid, making sure it means he carries some of your current load.

If you think about doing more hours, I'd do something different, so you use different energies. For me that keeps things more containable. I've been doing an extra day's work for the last 2 years (single mum), and doing it in a completely different location with different clients has felt really upbeat, though tiring. This option would be plan A for me, as I was surprised how much better I felt to have a financial cushion.
I'm now in the process of moving to a cheaper area, 200 miles away, and do not underestimate the MASSIVE energy decluttering, selliing house, dealing with estate agents and solicitors and buyers and the chain, etc takes. It is still the right option for me, but I'd try everything else first in another situation.

Good luck.

Came here to say this, I'd recommend Chepstow, Abergavenny, Usk not too far from the border and affluent but much cheaper than Bath

I don’t think you need to move too far - drop down into Somerset or over to Wales for cheaper housing but still able to visit Bath.

A higher paid job for him would mean going up a tax band.

But he'd still be earning more, the higher tax rate only applies to the earnings over the threshold so he would still be bringing in more. If tax is something that worries you, I’d be taking Scotland off your list.