Civil service

[aliatalia2]

I joined the civil service at HEO level after 13 years of private sector experience. Now kids with just 2 to 3 years experience are SEOs and G7s, with less experience than me and I know more than them, but still my experience is undermined. What do I do?

Take up some hobbies and enjoy your life

Do you want a job at SEO or G7?

Have you applied for SEO/G7 roles and missed out? Have you talked to your manager about your development, and next steps after your current job?

Not a civil servant here but assume this is a higher grade. Have you applied for these jobs? Have you told your boss you're interested in promotion or asked for their advice? Do you know what you need to do to get to the next grade? If not arrange a meeting and discuss. It's very easy for employers to overlook capable women.

Those “kids” have most likely applied for, been accepted to and completed the fast track scheme, making them qualified and equipped to work at those grade’s. You don’t necessarily have any more knowledge than they do simply because you’ve worked in an area for longer. The purpose of those schemes is to equip and train you to do the job, you move within departments and work with a range of different grades and people, as well as study for and pass a significant amount of exams in order to land a G7. You may have been sat at the desk for 13 years but you haven’t received that wealth of specialised training and experience they have- but you can also apply for the scheme if you wish

Are you applying foelr the higher roles? I was once that "kid" working at senior levels because I was ambitious and threw all my energy at work. Now it's plateaud and I have "kids" managing me because I've started a family, gone part time, can't be arsed etc.

If you haven't applied for the jobs you can't really complain about the ones that do.

Get promoted. I am an EO and have just been promoted after nearly 20 years as an AO. Through not wanting to, I'm not incompetent. I have colleagues more than ten years younger than me in higher grades earning more money. Good for them, they had an ambition that I did not.

Edited for typo.

I joined as a Direct Entrant EO aged 18 at a time when that was new and resented by those who'd got there by hard work and, in one case (allegedly), shagging the boss.

After a couple of changes of role I made HEO at 25 but then stayed there until my early forties. I was contented in a particular role and it suited me when we had young kids.

Only got to SEO via being on TP so long I got made up to the grade.

The big change was seeing people much younger than me in SCS roles. When I started they were all grizzled old blokes who'd served in the war or done National Service after.

I don't really understand your question. I was a civil servant for years and there were always opportunities to apply for promotions. You have to work your way up and I feel it's easy to do this in the civil service.
There are graduate schemes where recent graduates can join at a fairly high level. I assume your colleagues have done this or something similar. In your position I'd just apply for roles one or two grades above.
If you're question is what can you do about being undermined by senior colleagues - I'd talk to my manager, HR or the union

You joined as an HEO? If you want promotion apply for it.

Unfortunately, I have a lot of extensive training and experience, but since it's in private sector, it doesn't count 😞

I want to apply for a promotion, but the way the recruitment happens, it's so screwed up. They say you could have given an answer to this question better or that... They don't look at your skills but how good you are at blagging your way

But that is the way civil service recruitment works. It isnt about blagging - it is applying wider evidenced based examples from your career experience to the question being asked. Its a skill to learn and one that gets much easier the more interviews you sit. Its also really easy to bring private sector experience into civil service interviews, as long as you map it to the behaviours properly.

If you want to stay in the CS, it might be worth looking into getting a mentor outside your management chain? They can be really useful in helping with promotion opportunities and preparing for interview. Ive been in the CS for over 10years - i joined as an HEO in my 20s and am now a G6. I've done a lot of recruitment in that time and one of the biggest reasons why people are not successful is that they havent read the behaviours properly and just try to shoehorn in some random answer from their career - not what the panel is asking. Im not suggesting this is your issue by the way, but its something to be aware of as a really easy mistake to make during the interview process.

I’ve just joined as an HEO and I did it because it’s practically the same as a band 6 in the NHS where I came from. I work in a very niche part of the CS and felt I needed a year to really understand it before going for an SEO but I will. Just do that, they have campaigns all the time. Don’t worry about it.

That's not entirely true, I interview for the project deliver profession all the time and I always use skills based questions. Interviewees are asked to give examples as well.

Sounds like it could be your interview technique

Yes that's how interviews work everywhere - questions and answers. It's your job to explain your skills and experience in the interview. They are assessing your skills but you need to explain what they are.

Get some help with the recruitment process such as a mentor

What not to do:

Remain bitter about the kids rising up the ladder

Compare your experience to theirs like it's more important as part of the it's not fair narrative

Use the recruitment process as an excuse because you're not getting a job- it is what it is, learn the rules of the game and play it.

A lot of the "kids" will be late 20s who joined straight out of uni. I'm an SEO and my G7 is 29, not fast stream, just very good and motivated.

My G6 is older but came straight in at that grade from the private sector so private experience is relevant and can be used as behaviour examples in interviews.

The CS recruitment structure isn't going to change, so you either work with it and accept that you need to develop your skills at tackling applications and interviews to get promoted, or you stay at HEO. That's it really. No point being angry that others have got ahead of you. They aren't going to adjust the system just because it doesn't suit you.

Of course private sector is relevant. The opposite gripe could easily be applied - that private sector experience is often revered as this magical thing, and those with it often end up at very senior levels even when they don’t have much management experience.

I was one of those ‘kids’ who promoted fast (…before I had babies..) and your approach is one I dealt with so much in my first 5-7 years. I still remember some of the ageist, disparaging comments I got especially when I became a G7 after 3 years.

It sounds like your issue is interview technique. Speak to your manager and say you want support with this to help you progress.

Which means you don’t have the training & experience that those “kids” do. But the opportunity is there for you to get it, exactly the same way it was for them.

Can you get some interview coaching. /work placed mentoring?

I have been promoted above people with lots of time under their belt. Higher grades require different skills (and you do need also learn how to play the interview game /build a CV)

Of course your experience counts, if you can draw on it in a relevant fir your responses. CS recruitment is quite specific and you can see where your answers may fall short.

Yep OP seems the only way to progress is via the 'competency'-based recruitment process, exactly as you stated, knowing which is the right answer A, B, etc. At least you got in before this 'recruitment framework' was in place.

I'm very proud to say that I scored only 14% on the 'personality' test.