Is this living hand to mouth and unsustainable?

[honourthethreat]

I've pasted actual 4 weeks' food shopping below, purchased for 2 people in March; teenager and adult. Budget is £70 per week but I've been advised this is unreasonable, their cupboards are bare, they are living hand to mouth, cannot stay within budget and do not have enough to eat.

Note: There is no alcohol purchased and cleaning products have a different budget so this is for food only. I'd like your opinions please whilst I consider if an increase to budget is justified. Thanks in advance.

06 03 - £89 incl. takeaway
Protein: Chicken thighs, bacon, minced beef, smoked salmon, chicken tikka, cooked chicken slices, sushi, pizza & dip, x2Fridge raiders, x2 beef pasties, x2 chicken bake, x2 tikka slice, doner kebab & chips takeaway.
Dairy: 6L milk, x2 butter, cheese, mayonnaise, x12 fromage frais, milkshake.
Carbs: x2 large loaves, garlic bread, wraps, rocky biscuits, choc biscuits, Jaffa cakes, x12 crisps.
Fruit/veg: Onions, potatoes, coriander, stir-fry mixed veg, peppers, spring onions, cucumber, lettuce, tomatoes, coleslaw, apples, avocado, clementines, apple juice.
Other: Stir-fry sauce, mineral water, Large L’or coffee.

13.03 - £75
Protein: x2 pizza, fish fillets, beef mince, 1kg chicken breast, cooked chicken slices, x2 chicken bake.
Dairy: 8L milk, cheese, oat milk, yoghurt, soured cream.
Carbs: Large loaf, garlic bread, cereal bars, x 2 cheese pasties, x2 pasta types, rice, pasta sauce, tortilla wraps, x6 crisps, Jammie dodgers, lettuce, peppers.
Fruit/ veg: Mushrooms, chopped tomatoes, kidney beans, coleslaw, spring onions, broccoli, cauliflower,1kg carrots, cucumber, apples, bananas, grapes, tropical juice.
Other: Volvic water, hot chocolate, Large L’or coffee, 2L Pepsi, X4 Mars bars.

20.03 - £79
Protein: x4 burgers, diced steak, beef mince, medium chicken, salmon fillets, 1kg chicken legs, 1kg chicken thighs, smoked salmon, cooked sliced chicken, x2 tikka slices.
Carbs: x12 crisps, spaghetti, x2 cheese/onion slices.
Dairy: 4L milk, large tub butter, eggs, x6 yoghurts.
Fruit/veg: Plum tomatoes, potatoes, onions, mushrooms, stir fry meal deal, clementines, bananas, grapes, apple juice.
Other: x2 large coffee, vegetable oil, BBQ sauce, x4 Twix, x9 toffee crisp, x5 peanut butter cups, 2L mineral water.

27.03 - £71
Protein: Chicken kebabs, x2 pizza, beef meatballs, chicken breasts, salmon fillets, beef mince, x2 packs cooked sliced meat, medium chicken.
Carbs: Yorkshire puds, biscuits, Naan, garlic bread, flatbread, fries, noodles, rice sachets, x3 biscuits, cereal, x6 crisps, Lge loaf.
Dairy: 6L milk, cheese, yogurt.
Fruit/veg: Veg medley, chopped tomatoes, coleslaw, peppers, cauliflower, cucumber, lettuce, mushroom, onions, carrots, potatoes, kidney beans, bananas, apples, clementines, grapes, cherries, tropical fruit juice.
Other: Chocolate, 2L mineral water, Large L’or coffee, Bolognese sauce, pasta sauce, curry sauce, stir fry sauce, squash, salad cream, ketchup.

They are not a family and it’s about my company’s food budget, ie a business expense not a personal scenario.
No-one is identified so how is that unethical or unprofessional and how was their autonomy compromised?

I think it’s all relative to the individuals. Yes there is a lot of protein but being a big meat eater isn’t an offence. I grew up with a DF as a butcher so our meals were meat heavy. We’d quite often have just a massive plate of chicken drumsticks or pork ribs as a standard meal. I still love nothing more than tucking into a massive plate of drumsticks.

Im also thinking of my brothers as teenagers, they were not big lads as grown men the tallest I don’t think reaches 5’6”, but they were bottomless pits when it came to food. I can still vividly remember watching them scoff a whole packet of biscuits in seconds washing it down with a pint of milk, then going back for more. Even now they eat far more than you would think looking at them, they are both skinny but can eat double anyone else, they are very physical though, never stop moving.

I also love a nice cold glass of milk and easily drink a pint in a few minutes, 6l of milk a week isn’t too far fetched especially with so much coffee and hot chocolate.

I don’t see tea bags on the list, some people couldn’t survive without their 20 cups of tea a day, maybe these people are the same with coffee.

Then there is what is this food covering, are they taking food out with them? I will take a brew out in a disposable cup rather than buy a coffee in a cafe, same with food.

There is a lot of food I personally wouldn’t eat so couldn’t really say about the costs of some items. And some things I’d not buy because of cost.

I think a big factor should be where the shop is being done and the relevant supermarket prices. My favourite 79p fries I always bought my DCs in Aldi have gone up to £1.09 in the last 4/5 weeks the same with many other foods. The food here seems branded so I’m guessing it’s bought from a more expensive supermarket it’s understandable that their budget isn’t stretching as far as it would in the past.

Overall I think it’s not an unreasonable shopping list, even the water, they should be allowed bottled water if they want. The only thing id question is that it’s for 2 people, but as I said it’s all relative to the individual and what they deem is a meal for them. I’d be keen to know how much if any waste they have, are they using a full pack of meat and only eating half of what’s cooked and not making use to the left overs etc.. and what education around meal planning and cooking do they have and experience in this varies wildly through different groups of people.

OP says it a work situation.

My dh is a solicitor and one of his roles is to give some of his vulnerable clients money in a weekly or monthly basis as they are less able to control their own finances.

Like a lot if other posters, I’d say there is a lot if meat and not a lot of vegetables.
£70 for 1 adult + 1 teen, assuming it’s covering lunch and dinner might be on the low side. That’s what I would have spent 1 year ago. Now… different story. I’d spend more than that for a week.

But more to the point, I’m wondering if what they mean is that there is no place for extras. So that covers what they need on a day to day basis, all the essentials. But that’s it.
Im also wondering if they have stuff in the cupboard/fridge/freezer. I’d expect them to eat all of that fur the week, which means they often find themselves with nothing in the house to eat (hence many shopping trips at different places in a week?). So would some ‘reserve’ of food be helpful to balance the feeling of ‘barely scrapping by’?

I hope the teenager is a able to leave this situation as an adult and is seen as more than a ‘business expense’

Has the food allowance gone up in the last few years? How was the amount set previously? Maybe just link it to food inflation which is at 19% isn't it? So that would raise it to £83.30 if the £70 was appropriate a year ago.

He’s not a business expense, the food budget is. Every one of your posts has been goading or deliberately obtuse or both; do you seek to offend or is that just a coincidence?

Yes, it usually gets assessed every year and that’s my thinking. It was the rhetoric that led me to check out the receipts and I concluded that if it were really tight there’s a lot of expensive options there which could have been re-considered, so I thought I’d get some others’ opinions.

There was a suggestion in the office today that I should visit and look in the cupboards and freezer etc. They have the tall (5ft) upright matching fridge and freezer so that’s plenty of storage available.

I live alone, no alcohol but this includes washing up liquid/laundry stuff and any random bits of cleaning products I buy plus toilet rolls/bin bags/foil type stuff
My budget is £240pm and shop at Aldi

I’m not the one being obtuse. Who am I looking to upset when we are talking about a business expense?

The good budget for a child is traditionally arranged by the loving parents taking into consideration the child, do you see now why I might have some empathy with him?

I didn’t use ‘upset’, I indicated you were being deliberately offensive.

Your idealistic view of a family life with loving parents is sadly unavailable to many but we aim to create stability, safety, happiness, resilience, capability and achievement where there was none.

Offensive meaning - 1.
causing someone to feel resentful, upset, or annoyed.
"the allegations made are deeply offensive to us"

Is that part of your mission statement?

😂Try harder

Is the fish/salmon fresh or frozen, that's mega expensive just now. It's Alot of meat... Maybe do 2 vegatarian meals a week? And buy for example the bakes frozen rather than fresh. Is stuff also branded like jaffa cakes? Can it be switched?

Would they be interested in learning to cook from scratch? Could be a good team building / personal development opportunity.

But the OP again is not replying in full and giving the context so no appropriate, relevant answers are given

Why don't you just explain what the situation is? Why all the "similar to that" replies from you. Just say what the actual situation is and stop being so bloody silly about it all. If you want honest accurate opinions then give the honest accurate situation.
The fact that you don't implies you are trying to swing the opinion and that's just dishonest. What other reason could there be for it?

No idea whether fresh or frozen, I’d assumed chilled cabinet. Agree 100% about not eating meat everyday and I buy unbranded Jaffa cakes as they’re only about 35p - but not too often as I eat them too fast. Interestingly, they complain about having too few brands so I wouldn’t have much luck suggesting even fewer.

I'm still not clear what your relationship is to those people, I had assumed they were in some kind of supported living situation but who knows?

Don't you think going round to someone's house to look in their fridge or freezer is unnecessarily intrusive?

Do they have or need some kind of support worker to manage budgeting and cooking? Given that you have said they are not vulnerable that seems unlikely.

Do you/ your employer manage and allocate food budgets to other people?

Because when I first posted it was all about the budget and I just wanted the question considered whether it was eating hand to mouth, no more no less.

I acknowledged that some posters needed context before considering the question but it becomes a no win situation: some saying the information given is unethical and compromising, others wanting much more, some advance accusing about an incoming drip feed, others thinking it’s cryptic without every minute detail.

In amongst all that, I’ve received some considered and detailed answers about the budget and content of the OP which I really appreciate.

I’ve thought many times when reading other threads that after a certain number of pages it would be ideal to close the thread to new posts as there is nothing further to be gained and I’m feeling that about this one now.

It’s my house and I go there often but not to look in the cupboards! It’s obviously not the one house I live in but it is my responsibility to ensure everything is how it should be.

I didn’t say no one was vulnerable, I said there wasn’t a vulnerable adult. Others then decided to remind me that many teenagers are adults which is obviously a fact but has nothing to do with this thread, it’s arguments such as that which derails from the purpose of the thread which is all about whether two people can survive on a £70 food budget because I was told they ‘barely’ could.

"Living hand to mouth" to me would mean not frittering away money on overpriced nutritionally devoid crap like fridge raiders, loads of crisps etc.

2 packs of butter in a week!? That's quite something for two people.

I am on a budget for food and don't buy any snacks because I can't afford to. I still don't consider myself as living hand to mouth as I can afford basic food for all my meals.

Well my family consists of me and a teen boy and I wouldn't see that budget as a problem personally. However, I just made a shepherd's pie with 500g of mince, bulked out with veg and that will do us for three nights, so we are not eating nearly as much meat.

If they are used to a certain budget then they have taken a significant cut to their allowance in the last year with regard to spending power. Does the business need to make cuts so that they can not just increase the allowance with food inflation?

On the other hand, for everyone else, wages haven't matched inflation. Most people will have made changes to what they buy in the past year due to the cost of living. Is the young person going to be on their own as an adult and possibly have a shock if they can't afford their current budget?