Is this living hand to mouth and unsustainable?

[honourthethreat]

I've pasted actual 4 weeks' food shopping below, purchased for 2 people in March; teenager and adult. Budget is £70 per week but I've been advised this is unreasonable, their cupboards are bare, they are living hand to mouth, cannot stay within budget and do not have enough to eat.

Note: There is no alcohol purchased and cleaning products have a different budget so this is for food only. I'd like your opinions please whilst I consider if an increase to budget is justified. Thanks in advance.

06 03 - £89 incl. takeaway
Protein: Chicken thighs, bacon, minced beef, smoked salmon, chicken tikka, cooked chicken slices, sushi, pizza & dip, x2Fridge raiders, x2 beef pasties, x2 chicken bake, x2 tikka slice, doner kebab & chips takeaway.
Dairy: 6L milk, x2 butter, cheese, mayonnaise, x12 fromage frais, milkshake.
Carbs: x2 large loaves, garlic bread, wraps, rocky biscuits, choc biscuits, Jaffa cakes, x12 crisps.
Fruit/veg: Onions, potatoes, coriander, stir-fry mixed veg, peppers, spring onions, cucumber, lettuce, tomatoes, coleslaw, apples, avocado, clementines, apple juice.
Other: Stir-fry sauce, mineral water, Large L’or coffee.

13.03 - £75
Protein: x2 pizza, fish fillets, beef mince, 1kg chicken breast, cooked chicken slices, x2 chicken bake.
Dairy: 8L milk, cheese, oat milk, yoghurt, soured cream.
Carbs: Large loaf, garlic bread, cereal bars, x 2 cheese pasties, x2 pasta types, rice, pasta sauce, tortilla wraps, x6 crisps, Jammie dodgers, lettuce, peppers.
Fruit/ veg: Mushrooms, chopped tomatoes, kidney beans, coleslaw, spring onions, broccoli, cauliflower,1kg carrots, cucumber, apples, bananas, grapes, tropical juice.
Other: Volvic water, hot chocolate, Large L’or coffee, 2L Pepsi, X4 Mars bars.

20.03 - £79
Protein: x4 burgers, diced steak, beef mince, medium chicken, salmon fillets, 1kg chicken legs, 1kg chicken thighs, smoked salmon, cooked sliced chicken, x2 tikka slices.
Carbs: x12 crisps, spaghetti, x2 cheese/onion slices.
Dairy: 4L milk, large tub butter, eggs, x6 yoghurts.
Fruit/veg: Plum tomatoes, potatoes, onions, mushrooms, stir fry meal deal, clementines, bananas, grapes, apple juice.
Other: x2 large coffee, vegetable oil, BBQ sauce, x4 Twix, x9 toffee crisp, x5 peanut butter cups, 2L mineral water.

27.03 - £71
Protein: Chicken kebabs, x2 pizza, beef meatballs, chicken breasts, salmon fillets, beef mince, x2 packs cooked sliced meat, medium chicken.
Carbs: Yorkshire puds, biscuits, Naan, garlic bread, flatbread, fries, noodles, rice sachets, x3 biscuits, cereal, x6 crisps, Lge loaf.
Dairy: 6L milk, cheese, yogurt.
Fruit/veg: Veg medley, chopped tomatoes, coleslaw, peppers, cauliflower, cucumber, lettuce, mushroom, onions, carrots, potatoes, kidney beans, bananas, apples, clementines, grapes, cherries, tropical fruit juice.
Other: Chocolate, 2L mineral water, Large L’or coffee, Bolognese sauce, pasta sauce, curry sauce, stir fry sauce, squash, salad cream, ketchup.

Is this the budget for one of your adult children living with a partner? It doesn't make sense that OP is employing someone because this type of itemising of a week's purchase seems a gross invasion of privacy in order to justify a pay rise. It sounds a lot more like a personal relationship with the person needing a higher budget or a reverse.

The expenditure for fruit and veg is also pretty lavish. There's almost no reason anyone (with no children) needs bananas, apples, clementines, grapes, cherries as fruits for a single week. It's also not apple or citrus season so those are going to be more expensive and taste dull.

I’m not controlling their food, they menu plan, shop and prepare the meals. I’m responsible for budgeting and ensuring the money is spent well and is adequate.

This is fairly clearly agency staff caring for a young person in some sort of residential setting. Cooking with the teenager may well be part of the package and I am guessing that they themselves get some say over the food choices. I think it does depend if the staff and young person are male, also how active they are. When DS (aged 19) is home for the holidays the food bill nearly doubles and it is all chicken, steak and mince.

In this situation it isn't really going to be possible to batch cook. The ONS suggests £71 per week for a young active male.

ensuring the money is spent well

This is way beyond what an employer should ever do

Two types of Chicken, salmon and smoked salmon in one week is not living hand to mouth.

I’m going guess the vulnerable person is the teenager - drip feed a 19 year old adult and the employee is the carer.

if you feel your employee is not meal planning etc adequately then you need to provide training in that area.

This is fairly clearly agency staff caring for a young person in some sort of residential setting.

If it is i don't know why the OP couldn't just explain that in their post.

Op says they're not vulnerable.

https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/average-uk-household-cost-food#:~:text=What%27s%20the%20average%20food%20bill,or%20ordering%20takeaways%20each%20week.

Can I? I don’t think that is true.

I asked a question. I didn't make a statement.

Sorry to derail, but am i understanding what you wrote correctly? The ONS reckon on a food budget of 71 quid A WEEK for one active male?

That seems madly high to me.

I said adults were not vulnerable.

Because they want everyone to side with them and not to understand the nuances of the situation.

What do you mean by adults are not vulnerable? Teenagers can be adults? So is one of the people vulnerable and one not?

The context is necessary.

I mean if this is someone on a debt management plan saying they need more in their food budget at the expense of paying their debts then they need to be told to cut their cloth accordingly.

If it is someone doing a live in job that is fairly physical and always on then it might not be unreasonable especially if they need quick options for work reasons or have limited cooking/food storage facilities. They can presumably supplement what they get from their wages if luxury coffee and a takeaway is essential for them.

If you are managing a trust that pays out for living expenses and is supposed to maintain a certain lifestyle then you are probably being too forensic and intrusive and should step back and just agree an inflationary rise.

I’ve no idea of the actual situation here, and don’t know what cooking facilities there are etc. But that food list and budget is definitely not an example of 2 adults living hand to mouth.

Yes food prices have increased, but in my opinion £70 is still a reasonable amount (not lavish by any means though) for 2 people, assuming they are able to make sensible choices, meal plan, cook and store food. Even more so if they get some meals at work.

There’s no drip feed. I’m astonished that there is so much speculation on the circumstances when all I wanted to know was whether it was a manageable budget.
My own thoughts on the budget are that there is too much processed goods e.g. sachet rice and jars of sauces and savings could be made there to stretch in other directions.
As previously stated, I’m not adverse to negotiating budgets, it was the manner in which it was broached in a SMT meeting.

Also consider if they live in shared accommodation that food could be getting stolen.

That’s a good explanation of how context may influence a response, thank you. If I ever dare to start a thread again after this experience, I’ll try to include more detail.

Looking at that list I would be interested to know how you define a 'Large L'Or Coffee'.
You've put down that they have purchased 5 large jars of coffee in 4 weeks.

Is the teen or adult perhaps bringing home friends for coffee a lot?
It might make sense of the amount of milk & coffee on those lists.

The whole point is that the context is needed.

How many meals does it cover.

Are the people active.

What age are they - as a sedentary 50-something I don't eat as much as my very active rugby playing 20-something

Do they have freezer space.

Are they the only people with access to the food.

Do either of the people have allergies or intolerances or any other issues with food.

Yeah. This.

I really don’t, I’m open to any/all opinions

Op, I’ve name changed for this but I’m in a situation where I employ people and there is a young adult with complex needs being looked after.

The staff - can eat what they like from the kitchen. Either they’ll have what I’m having or they’ll cook for themselves, anything they want. On top of that they each put about 20 pounds into a kitty and I’m not sure what they buy with it and when I ask why they’re doing it I’m told because it’s polite.

My adult child. I buy his meat every month and it’s 10 thick fillet steaks, 10 chicken and 10 servings of two loin of lamb chops. I also buy his breakfast items - very good quality sausages This comes to the equivalent of approx 160 pounds.

On top of that he has a pay as you go Debit card with 500 pounds loaded on it every month that he uses to do his shopping with once a week. This is stuff that he likes - peanut butter, Nutella, cereal, frozen chips, fish in batter, chicken strips, bread, bread rolls, orange juice, grapes, apples, his sweeties for a week, pizza delivery once a week and lunch out on a Saturday. This comes to about 80 pounds a week. He also then has a daily trip to the corner shop when on his evening walk when he buys an ice cream or ice lolly. So about 10 pounds a week.

everything else he has - daily vegetables and some fruit, eggs and other store cupboard/fridge items comes from what I stock the kitchen with.

My rule of thumb in the house is that everyone eats at the same standard. There’s no such thing as they’re staff, that will do them. So what I would say is that if you’d eat the way it suggests on the shopping list then anyone in your house should be eating it also.

AS for anyone in the house who has a learning difficulty - well, they can have what they want because they may have a restricted diet which can be very expensive/they deserve to eat very well and if circumstances were different they’re perhaps at an age where they’d have good jobs and be eating well anyway.