Does anyone else think these energy companies are utterly disgusting?

[Appleabananasandpears]

Just seen this on the BBC - ExxonMobil sues EU to block energy windfall tax: "Whether we invest here primarily depends on how attractive and globally competitive Europe will be," Exxon spokesperson Casey Norton told the Reuters news agency.

So they’re resorting to blackmail then. Heating is no ordinary commodity, these cowboys are playing with people’s lives.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64113398

ExxonMobil are a morally bankrupt company so I'd be glad for them not to operate in Europe.

They quit Europe makes it easier for better greener companies to operate ?

Fingers crossed!!

I don't tbh. They are just a publicly traded company acting in their own interests.

We should be far more angry at all our governments over the past 30 years for putting us in this situation. There's no reason the UK couldn't be entirely energy independent and insulated from world market price shocks.

The reason is that we have consistently voted in governments who want quick wins not long term infrastructure work, who want market forces to support their buddies bank balances

Fair points made about our successive governments.

I wouldn't think greener companies could operate at a cost many of us could afford.

Energy companies are not the bad boys here. All companies exist to make a profit. If your pension fund is invested in an energy company (and many are), you benefit when their share price increases on the back of a rise in profits. Exxon is fighting for their shareholders (who own the company). It's not blackmail but a fair point that they will withdraw from investing in the UK by selling their interests here and invest in other parts of the world that are more profitable and business friendly.

I hard agree with pp who blame previous successive governments for not having the foresight to make the UK more energy self reliant. We should have had a massive Sovereign Wealth Fund like Norway instead of frittering it away. Even Shetland Council has a fund and put their oil taxes to better community use than the UK government. We should have invested in nuclear a long time ago; just wait for when green taxes on energy kick in.

Whilst they are operating in their shareholders best interests, they should also recognise that when people are freezing in their own homes, schools and hospitals will go bankrupt because of the heating bills, there needs to be a balance between operating at a profit and providing an essential service. And yes the govt should have had better sustainable energy policies long ago.

The issue is that you are advocating for social conscience on a private business entity. How far down the road do we go with extra taxes? ExxonMobil sells an essential commodity true, but it does not operate a monopoly. Because it operates in a free market it too is affected by supply and demand. At the height of the pandemic when oil price fell below production costs, absolutely no mention was made for a tax cut at a time when oil companies were having to pay to store oil because they could not sell it.

One could argue that all groceries provide an essential service. Tesco saw a 23.66% increase in pre-tax profit in 2022 compared to 2021, should they be penalised too? Should windfall taxes be applied to all "essential" industries? I seem to remember a time when Stagecoach was making huge profits. Who determines the definition of "essential" for windfall tax purposes?

I understand that it is an emotive subject and have no issues with the imposition of any windfall tax per se. The problem is with the level of taxation, how it is implemented, and the effect on the economy and our financial reputation when companies that can, change their mind about operating in the UK.

Our government's decision to consistently keep low stocks of essential fuel even during a cost of living crisis is partly to blame for the mess we are in right now.

They are a plc they should operate with the sole interests of their shareholders. When oil price went negative during COVID was everyone wanting a windfall tax equally wanting to subsidize lost profits on the oil? If so please share your posts from the time.

Where is your outrage when the Crown estates profits dropped and they've been handed tens of millions of pounds to cover the gap in PROFITS

Are you not outraged about that? That taxpayers have to had to hand over that much more money to cover a gap in profits!!!!

But no lets just pick on the oil and energy companies 🙄

Yes it's complex re

Agree with you @coronafiona. To essentially say that companies will remain blameless in their pursuit of profit for shareholders (who I agree are probably many of us here), regardless of the societal impact, because it is what they do, takes it a bit too far in my opinion. Even Shell’s outgoing CEO has said windfall taxes will be needed to protect the poorest in society:

Speaking to the Energy Intelligence Forum, an oil industry event, Mr van Beurden said: "You cannot have a market that behaves in such a way - logically and effectively and everything else - that it's going to damage a significant part of society.
**
He said that "one way or another" there would be government intervention that "results in protecting the poorest".
**
"That probably means governments need to tax people in this room to pay for it - I think we just have to accept [that] as a societal reality," he said, "There is a discussion to be had about it but I think it's inevitable."

amp.lbc.co.uk/news/uk/shell-boss-calls-on-government-to-introduce-windfall-tax-on-energy-companies-to/

@logicisall and @Itsbiasedhere you’ve presented logical arguments but at what point does morality come into the equation? And what’s the point of all these companies corporate responsibility initiatives if they insist on spending millions to fight a windfall tax that will help prevent people freezing in their homes?

I worked for Exxon for many years they were a fantastic employer ..... totally not the point of the post I know

Hello Liz

The other issue is that accountants will find a way around any local tax applied, so companies will employ people in other countries, loopholes etc. it would be better if governments around the world could do something about the wholesale price then, if that's possible?

@Appleabananasandpears , As I said before, I am not against the idea of windfall taxes per se. Where we differ is in linking morality to tax.

Let me put the following questions to you:

Is it the purpose of government to impose moral directives on companies?

How do you define "excessive" profit? Mapped against the industry or by amount against all other companies/industries?

Should it always be taxed? (I'm thinking bet365 esp when using the morality argument)

Why should some companies be subject to windfall taxes while others such as Amazon, ($216.165b Sept 2022 gross profit) can actively avoid tax?

The amount the government frittered away on exorbitant PPE contracts and fake furlough payments could have gone some way in subsidising current energy cost to users. Is enough effort being made to recover fraudulent payments?

If you want to take the high moral ground then don't buy products from companies that destroy the environment, or communities or exploit workers or indeed, indeed, make excessive profits.

As you can see, I don't believe the argument for imposing a windfall tax on oil and gas producers is a straight line moral issue. If we as a nation wanted government intervention in the morality of private enterprises, we would have demanded that we not participate in the Qatar world cup.