How on earth do people afford to have so many children?

[MrsJaffaCakes]

As per the title really?

I know several people who, despite having a seemingly average income, have loads of children and a great lifestyle too!

Someone that I know has just had her fifth baby, and is already planning a sixth. She is a SAHM, her husband works in a call centre. They have a brand new build 5 bedroom house, all five children wear expensive branded clothes by Joules, Boden etc, and the older children all do loads of activities. My friend is also always buying "stuff"; things like £400 food mixers, and £500 bespoke curtains. She has also recently had a mural painted on her childrens' playroom wall, which I would not think was cheap.

Another acquaintance has got 4 children. She too is a SAHM. Her DH is a chef but he has frequent periods of unemployment. They have a lovely house, and the children don't seem to go without anything. She is always immaculately turned out, and has things like gel nails, and hair coloured on a regular basis.

I just don't know how people do it. We have stopped at two children as that is all we can afford, and I have to place a limit in the activities they can do. They don't have expensive branded clothing etc as we can't afford it. And that's with us both working in professional jobs.

How do people afford it?

I have 4 dcs. High earning dh but still broke! Have had help frim pil too and they buy alot of dcs clothes.

I have 5 DC and am a SAHM (husband OK wage but not high earner). We have a small mortgage and 3 bed terrace, couldn't afford bigger in same area.

We share a car, in the UK, wear supermarket clothes, obviously don't pay for childcare, are not materialistic, rarely eat out etc etc. It's the same for the other families with 4/5 that I know. Most only have 3 bed houses and have frugal lifestyles.

The only family I know very well off got very large amounts of tax credits as one of the 8 children had DLA and neither parent worked.

Some people may have inherited, some get a lot of tax credits, some may be fiddling, some have well off family members buying kids designer clothes, some fiddle taxes, some use credit cards etc etc.

oops above should say we holiday in the UK

morethanpotato - can you still get those tax credits even though you own a house outright?

Yes, paperbag, you can, if you rent and have a low income, you may be entitled to housing benefit, that is separate - tax credits are solely related to the number of children you have, your household income, and any childcare payments.

A relative of mine has 5 DCs and they both work just enough PT hours to maximise their tax credit entitlement. They own their own home with a tiny mortgage, don't need to pay any childcare and no-one has any disabilities. They get over 20k per year in child tax credits, working tax credits and child benefit, in addition to the approx 10k earned income between them.

I bet when you look at the total amount of money coming in, for families with 4 or more DCs, the part time low earners won't have that much less than much higher earning families that are not entitled to any tax credits, which doesn't seem fair for someone working in a professional job that requires long hours, working away from home and to be 'always on', answering emails out of hours etc.

Of course, there are lots of other reasons why incomes and lifestyles don't seem to 'match', so unless you know all the circumstances, you can't say whether their lifestyle and their income are in line.

Who will?

The one who the OP said is a chef and has frequent periods of unemployment. When he is unemployed he will get housing benefit if they are renting. If he has a mortgage he won't get any help (unless he is employed for more than 3 months and then he will get minimal help).

jellybeans - They would not be very well off. If the child was very severely disabled, the maximum they would be receiving is about £46,000. A lot yes, but not to look after 8 children, pay the rent and care for a child with very severe disabilities.

Tax credits and credit cards or bank of mum and dad! That's how!

paperbaghag

Yes, I think so but not 100% sure. We have a tennant now, but only recently so obviously income has gone up albeit only a small profit.
I don't think we will get any for this year, but they work on last years income. I believe this will probably be our last year but not sure.
I tell them all changes toincome, status etc and wait to hear from them and haven't really looked into it.

buying good quality clothes means they will be able to hand them down (as there will be something left to hand down) so they probably save money in the long run that was as well

agree, you can't know people's circumstances. Maybe they have a small inheritance that pays a regualr sum, maybe they work at night stuffing envelopes and are very frugal in other areas, or maybe they are about to go bankrupt.

Envy is one of the deadly sins dontchaknow? Righlt so as it's not a very nice trait.

"The one who the OP said is a chef and has frequent periods of unemployment. When he is unemployed he will get housing benefit if they are renting. If he has a mortgage he won't get any help (unless he is employed for more than 3 months and then he will get minimal help)."

Oh right. When you said "if their homes are rented" i thought you were talking plural and saying all renters got help. Thanks for clarifying.

I really resent the second post 're carers. The vast majority of carers live in poverty and as a carer myself the only benefit I get is carers allowance which is £63.15 pw, which considering it is a 24/7 'job' is laughable. We get no help towards rent, or anything else. My dd gets dla but as you may be aware, that is for her benefit and it does cover basic costs if you have a severe disability.

As for the subject matter outlined by the op. I don't know either, they sound lucky :)

I have a friend who seems never to be short of cash. She is always out, eating at top London restaurants, went to the Caribbean for three weeks over Easter, and recently bought herself a Chanel handbag for around £5K. She has a nice house in a lovely part of London. So on the surface, everything seems wonderful, yes? I happen to know that she is around £10K overdrawn, up to the max on three credit cards, and has an interest only mortgage. She will retire in about 5 years, and has no idea what she is going to do about somewhere to live (the equity in her house won't be enough to buy her a studio flat in London) or how she is going to pay off her debts. But it doesn't seem to worry her; she just keeps spending.

I should have been more specific sillybilly but it was logical in my mind that people on low incomes or those who are unemployed and rent their homes get help through housing benefit which possibly makes them better off financially than people with similar incomes and mortgages. I can totally understand how my post was confusing to anybody but myself now that you have pointed it out.

Owllady - I'm another one of these loaded carers living it large with my £60 per week. My husband works and his salary covers the mortgage, but I gave up a £30k a year salary due to my child's complex care needs and the carers allowance doesn't come close to the shortfall. On the upside I am now an expert at budgeting. I refuse to consider myself as unemployed or a benefit scrounger ; I am employed as a carer with my illegal (doesn't meet NMW) salary paid by the govt. I work damn hard and save the govt over a hundred thousand pounds every year.

That's a total myth wrt help when renting and unemployed or a low earner. Our tenancy agreement specifically states: 'no dss'. So we are not permitted to claim housing benefit, even though we're eligible.

Sorry my last post was supposed to say the dla does not cover the basic costs with severe disability. It helps for sure, but like you impatient, I have had to give up full time employment and the experience is incredibly isolating, let alone physically and emotional demanding with very little respite. Why would someone would envy that? Why would someone think it's an amazing life to scrape faeces off your teenage child, to have sit up with them in the night whilst they have yet another seizure? To watch their already disabled body start to curve and stiffen? Would you really want 63 quid a week and some dla for all that? I don't want to watch my daughter in physical pain and emotional anxiety torment every single day, but unfortunately I have to. It would be helpful if people gained a bit more perspective and depth tbh

Me too impatient x

It does surprise me when I find out people with nice houses, holidays seriously economise on food (budget bread and meat ). I spend too much on food (including organic naice stuff ) because I'm feeding growing minds and bodies. I could halve or third my food bills, eat crap and we'd have luxuries, but I couldn't live with myself.

beeping - dss - is that housing benefit? but it gets paid to you, so how would the landlord ever know?

"beeping - dss - is that housing benefit? but it gets paid to you, so how would the landlord ever know?"

Where i live you have to give a section of the HB application form to your LL or letting agent to be filled in and signed. It requests details about the property, how many bedrooms, age of property, who is liable for what bills, how much rent is charged etc.

You wouldnt get HB without this part of the form.

Ah right. That's outrageous they don't accept it. Should be made illegal

paperbag it would be illegal. Most buy to let LL's mortgage companies & buildings insurers do not allow private rentin tenants in receipt of hb - employed or unemployed. We're employed.

We get CTC's for 2 dc. Under universal credit, hb and ctc will be one & the same benefit, only categorised into different 'elements of the UC'. Not sure if that makes any sense to anyone reading?

Under UC, we'll probably have to find a LL who excepts dss tenants, & move house. Renters have no rights and apparently are scum of the earth. Google it & you'll be awakened to the discrimination private renters face

*accepts, not excepts!