Why no option to buy the vaccine?

[CorsicaDreaming]

Given so many threads about how ill people have been with the latest Covid infections, I just can't understand why the government doesn't introduce an option to buy the vaccine? Does anyone know?

I don't know, I'd happily buy it, makes no sense.

I totally agree, I would want to buy it.

I was able to get the October one but probably now won't be able to get another vaccine until next October - and given the two times I've had Covid so far it wiped me out both times for five weeks, and on one occasion lead onto bacterial pneumonia, I would be happy to pay to be able to continue getting regularly vaccinated.

It seems a massive own goal for the NHS and the government, as it would surely save a lot of money if they rolled that out, from the point of view of hospital admissions and GP care, etc

I agree! Seems mad we had all those restrictions unless vaccinated and now absolutely no one cares and we can’t even get one 😫

I think there's talk of introducing it, but from what I remember it's going to be a lot more expensive than the flu vaccine.

I would really like to know why! I was ill for two months with covid last time I had it - it's not always 'just a bad cold' but somehow the prevailing narrative in this country is that it's nothing more than a typical winter virus. Except we can catch it year-round and even healthy people can be badly affected for a long time by it.

Balance of risk.

Vaccines are not risk-free. For people in vulnerable groups, the risks of being unvaccinated & getting Covid (or any other disease for which vaccines exist) massively outweigh the risks of taking the vaccine.

For young, fit, healthy people with no co-morbidities the risk vs benefit analysis is less clear.

The purpose of the vaccine is NOT to prevent otherwise healthy people from feeling ill for a few weeks when they get Covid. It is to keep vulnerable people out of hospital.

How is it different to the chicken pox vaccine @BarelyLiterate ? We can buy that for our children, but chicken pox is a virus that for most people is mild (rotten, uncomfortable, might feel terrible for 2-3 weeks but not hospitalised in most cases). The vaccine isn't risk free. But it's for sale - and I would pay for it if I had young children. I got three doses of covid vax when they were available for all, the vaccines are still being given out to older people so why can't those of us who want it pay for it like we can other jabs?

@BarelyLiterate - re your last paragraph on the purpose not being to keep people from getting ill for a few weeks, only to try and prevent hospital admissions-

I just don't think that narrative works, because many people who were otherwise apparently fit and healthy, have had debilitating long Covid, or other life changing consequences- I've got a friend who's gone deaf in one ear following Covid. There also seems to be emerging evidence it can cause onset of the menopause, and other threads on here are citing stats from WHO that there is a 1:10 risk of getting Long Covid each time you contract it.

So a policy on vaccines that is just focussed to try and keep the most vulnerable out of hospital seems a very short sighted strategy indeed...

And as mentioned above, is not the strategy used for illnesses such as chickenpox, for example.

I know. I buy a flu jab so I'd like to buy a covid jab. It's worse than a cold and has a knock of effect for education / employment for more people.

My work pays for my flu jab; I just claim it back via expenses.

I’m sure they’d happily pa6 for a covid jab, even if, say, 3 or 4 x more expensive, as we lose such a lot of working days for staff from covid

if you are interested in the reason for post covid fatique:

www.dutchnews.nl/2024/01/long-covid-patients-fatigue-is-biological-dutch-research/

sadly doesn't look like there is a cure just yet.

fwiw currently the covid jab is 'only' licensed for restricted prescribtion and not yet for general prescription. once that status changes it might be available for the general public like the flu jab.

Apparently Austria did a study on their recent booster. It turned out those who had the booster immunity ran out very fast. I cannot remember The exact details. Those who were boosted caught covid more often than those not boosted. It was on a Dr John Campbell podcast.

I don't know but considering they bought enough vaccines to cover all the over 50's and then just vaccinated over 65's plus vulnerable groups you would think they would want to recoup some of that money! 🤷‍♀️

I can't comment on the Austria thing as I don't know anything about it, but John Campbell (not a medical dr btw) is not a reliable source these days. He was really good at the start of the pandemic but has unfortunately gradually drifted towards playing to his most conspiracy-minded audience members and further and further away from any kind of scientific credibility. It's really disappointing as his videos at the beginning were good.

I think I read that one of the vaccines at least has been licenced in the UK for private sale, but I don't think the manufacturers actually providing it for that was expected to happen before this year.

Dr John Cambell isn’t a medical doctor. Agree with pp he was good at start of the pandemic but now gone down an anti vax wormhole

I've had all the vaccines (I'm 65) and had covid 5 times.. 1st time before vaccinations...l was hospitalised..
No2 like bad flu.
No3 like bad flu.
No4 horrific.
No 5 horrific and suicidal..
I have long covid. Still some foods taste like eating pure salt.
I can smell peanut butter every day ( l don't even like it).but loads crave peanut butter when recovering from it.
I have memory problems .
I get every germ going.
Prone to Gastroenteritis more than usual.
Tired all the time.
Dizzy and fainting a lot ( PoTS). I have attended The long covid clinic and they can't tell me if the vaccinations or Covid gave me these symtoms of long covid.

The reason the vaccine was withdrawn from offer to the general population under a specified age (which varies by country) is because of concern over the risk / reward ratio.

Unfortunately no drug is risk free, take paracetamol, about 0.6% of the population would suffer an allergic reaction of note to paracetamol, a much smaller percentage would have a fatal reaction - If i gave everyone in the world a paracetamol it would result in at least thousands of deaths, and even more allergy consequences.

Vaccines too can have serious side effects, some of the ones used for tropical diseases are really rather nasty. The Covid vaccine does have side effects that are known (heart symptoms) and other possibles (recurrence of cancer for example), the possibles based on small reporting may come to nothing. Then there is long term effects, which won't be known for 10-20 years.

The regulators have deemed, very sensibly in my opinion, that for those not at great risk from the virus you are better off, having had a course of vaccine, and likely been infected too, that your hybrid immunity should keep you safe, and the risk of the vaccine is equal to or greater than the risk of the virus, hence no benefit.

Speaking as a science teacher, I think the development of the mRNA technology employed in the vaccine is a truly amazing bit of science, and done very efficiently in time of crisis, it will certainly serve humanity well in the future - but as a 44 year old, thrice vaccinated, and infected, I think the vaccine is best used for vulnerable groups until we know far more about its risks, and understand the mechanism behind long covid - science will get there.

As to Dr John Campbell, as an educator I find him an enjoyable and able analyst and presenter of information - he doesn't shy away from looking at the good, the bad and the ugly of the covid phenomenon explaining clearly theories and data as they land. He has a Phd so is quite within his rights to be called Dr. and is well regarded as an author of medical textbooks used in nursing training, I would say he has an open mind, which is good, in science, especially actively developing science you really need that. (as a side fact most UK medical doctors hold no doctorate but rather a double bachelors degree)

That sounds awful @Moier - I'm sorry you are having such an awful time of it.

I've had 8 vaccines and was still really unwell with covid so I guess I'm glad I had them
Was on antivirals and tested negative then rebounded, 3 weeks off work

I've had all the jabs as work with vulnerable newborns

I've never had covid

Think All my friends have had it least once

I pay for flu jan. Would be happy to pay for a covid Jab

@PropertyManager - I take your point about caution usually being a good approach on vaccinations, and weighing up benefit v risk over the whole population as all the outcomes won't necessarily be known for a fairly long time – 10-20 years as you say - but we already know that a significant number of people are getting Long Covid, or having to take significant chunks of time off work, even if they're not getting diagnosed with Long Covid. That is a known risk now. And that affects a lot more people than just those who would be classified as significantly vulnerable in NHS terms.

The concern, as I understand it, is that there is a good chance that the spike protein plays a significant role in long covid, and the vaccine uses the same protein - I'm told by a friend who is a virologist that the longer term goal will be to produce a vaccine that is trained on other aspects of covid's RNA so the spike can be avoided.

I think long covid is going to be a real headache unfortunately and huge area for research over the coming decades, so far there doesn't seem to be any established pattern to who gets it, although middle aged seem to be effected worse.

Give it 5 years, I think we will have greater understanding and there will be OTC covid specific medicines available. There is a lot of research going on, because whoever cracks it will clean up financially.

There is a certain disconnect here - many are saying “I have had all boosters and I’m on my x dose of Covid”. At what point do we accept the vaccine really doesn’t make a jot of difference to whether you are infected?

the part about the spike protein is interesting. The reason I chose not to have a vaccine was because I didn’t want the spike protein anywhere near me. I couldn’t avoid it and had the infection once but not since - or at least not enough to know.

My other concern is whether the body mounts as a good a response to a different variant after a vaccine - certainly the people I know floored by Covid are vaccinated.

we need a lot more studies and a much better vaccine except in the case of the most vulnerable perhaps

Ps - where is the study that it can cause a recurrence of cancer? That is not music to my ears. I know Professor Dalgleish issued some statements but I assumed that there weren’t studies backing this up.