COVID and immune system

[XmasStag]

I haven't been following COVID news or stuff in a long time.

I had a look on twitter to see some people are still panicked about COVID.

I came across these posts on twitter. Basically stating that COVID damages the immune system.

Is this true?

We were led to believe that COVID was a cold or a flu at worst. Now there's these posts saying it's more than that and it's damaging the immunive system.

If it's damaging the immune system - isn't that what HIV does - the immune system is damaged with HIV.

Why are governments allowing COVID to spread?

Flu is seasonal and maybe you get it once every few years but COVID just keeps going around and around. For people catching COVID multiple times - that can't be good.

Yes, there is a considerable body of evidence that COVID dysregulates the immune system and that the effect can last for months.

And when that happens in a population, you would see people catching infections a bit more readily, catching every damned thing that's going around, being that bit more ill with each, and for both school and work absences to rise , and there be some increase in people leaving the workforce because of cumulative effects.

Does that sound like what's happening?

Covid also causes a rise in the number of strokes and other cardio-vascular events, an increase in the rates of diabetes (both types) and exacerbation of symptoms, and neurological issues (notably brain "fog" ie damage, and exacerbation of dementia)

No, I have no idea why governments are so complacent. I suspect it is because most political systems are geared to reward short-term popular policies

Because you can't stop it as a lot of scientists have been saying since it started. To eradicate it you need;
A) no transmission before people know they are infected, with world wide effective isolation of the sick. Imagine that for a flu like bug in somewhere like Gaza or Africa.
And/or
B) no asymptomatic disease
And/or
C) Disease severity enough to get population compliance.

Your only other magic bullet is a vaccine that stops disease and transmission.

We haven't got any of the above and the measures needed worldwide to eradicate it is impossible to stomach.

I'm now 6 weeks post infection still breathless and suffering with my existing conditions which are immune regulated. Do I want to go back to social distancing so I don't get it again next year, hell no got two holidays booked and multiple parties coming up. By the summer I will get over it and winter is never great for me anyway.

It happened to me

It's 90% likely to be complete nonsense, and if there's ever any truth to it for any individual, the same risk can probably be said about influenza, adenoviruses, gastro-viruses, plenty of bacteria, basically every other wee pathogen we get exposed to frequently and frequently have asymptomatically.

This same sort of "covid damages immune systems !" claim came up on my Facebook, old friend saying it , she has biology degree but it was plant biology which field she never worked in last 20 years.

I just stopped following her. She's a good person but ... Final straw in a long series of covid beliefs she has and I don't think she wants me to point to evidence that doesn't support her beliefs..

HIV has a specific & unusual (& different) aetiology.

Covid is becoming seasonal, that transition doesn't happen instantly.

I also get some proper COVID doomer stuff pop up on my twitter timeline and it stresses me out to the point that I'm considering leaving Twitter. There's definitely a certain type of doomer (probably crossing over significantly with preppers) that seems to actively salivate over the idea of COVID leading to the destruction of the human race just so they can be 'right'.

A lot of it seems to be based on anecdata. I'm pretty sure that there are many actual scientists and data analysts etc who are keeping tabs on things and if there was really a cause for concern then they would raise the alarm. I'm not sure I buy into any of the government coverup type conspiracies. I try to avoid getting COVID (or any other illness) but I'm not sure that panicking about possible future developments is that helpful at this point.

In my case I don't think has damaged my immune system as such but it certainly freaked out my neurological system for a very long time. A year later most things I was experiencing have gone away but for up to 9 months it was very frightening and somewhat debilitating

@MedSchoolRat part of the issue is people don't see other viruses in the same light or indeed in the light they should. Noro-just a virus, cold/flu-just a virus, chicken pox-just a virus, COVID=plague.

I've noticed it more this time round, I'm typical for me post viral. But three people who have seen this multiple time, who know I have had COVID have asked if I have long COVID...nope it's normal, just because this time you have a name for the virus doesn't change it, I've had a virus I'm itchy, tachy and coughing!

It can dysregulate the immune system. Google it and have a look at the actual research journals. As for why isn't anything being done, short termism I guess. Who knows? Insurance companies and economists are taking it seriously.

We'll never eradicate food poisoning, but we make big public health efforts to reduce how often people get it.

There's quite a lot we can do between doing nothing about covid, and having lockdown-style social distancing.

Good indoor air quality would be one thing that's completely achievable, just not cheap (or instant). But all sorts of public health rules require long-term governmental and business expenditure - everything from fire doors to rules about fridge temperatures. If it's good enough to try to avoid food poisoning why not airborne diseases like covid? It's not like it's likely to be the last one.

I don't think it's doing us any good as individuals or as a society, getting it as often as we are.

I had covid nearly 3 years ago (the first time) and I've been ill ever since (long covid). Later the following year I somehow caught glandular fever, despite no close contact with anyone. This year I had covid a second time. I've spent about 2/3 of my waking life in bed in the past 3 years.

On top of that:

-After the pfizer vaccine I immediate went into menopause. Absolutely no symptoms of it before hand but full on hot flushes and sweats. Two years later I now haven't had a period for 8 months. I'm 46.
-I've developed major symptoms of a sleeping disorder that often leaves me unable to work.
-My migraines are worse. On one occasion, paramedics had to come to my home to administer morphine and anti-emetics.
-I've developed a cyst and occasionally wet the bed.
-My dry eye condition is a lot worse and I had to go to eye casualty for an ulcerated cornea.
-I suffer from brain fog and have to make lists of everything otherwise I forget.

The triple irony of this is:
-I caught covid working on a covid ward where adequate face masks were not provided.
-I'm so unwell that I had to resign from the NHS
-I'm not getting better because the waiting list to see any specialist doctor for any of the above is months long. I won't be seen until June at the earliest.
-Career effectively over. Health ruined. No help.

The point is, covid has definitely done something terrible to me. I just don't know yet WHAT it's done.

Did your migraines get worse from having Covid or the vaccine ? I’ve never had a vaccine and have been invited to get one and not sure what to do

In the Bild, the German health minister is warning "Covid remains dangerous. It's not acold that you can safely catch every season"

This is, in part, because of the effect on the immune system. Many viruses have a similar dampening effect, but covid is unusual because of both extent and duration of the effect it causes.

Further bit of the German statement earlier this month:

Covid is not a cold

With a cold, you don't usually see any long-tern effects, you don't see any changes to the blood vessels, you don't see an autoimmune disease developing, you also don't usually see neurological inflammation - these are all things we see with long Covid

Therefore, one should not assume that Covid infection is just a common cold. It can affect brain tissue and the vascular system and we still lack an effective treatment

I don't severe symptoms as such but I have been wondering abut the immune system link. I literally never got ill. Now, like clockwork since having covid around every 8 weeks I'm getting something- from a stomach virus, to cold. I eat vitamins, I exercise daily, I eat loads of fruit and veg, I do everything I can to try and boost my immunity.

I am in peri menopause but my brain and memory fog is unreal. HRT hasn't helped on that front.

I had the early vaccines, and despite being chased repeatedly to get another (I had a DVT following broken ankle so I'm on the list), I won't get another because I am now too scared after seeing what happened to my mother after she had a vaccine.

I know I'm not suffering like others but I am fed up of having virus after virus and getting everything going all the time.

I’m following this with interest. One of my kids had shingles this year - shingles. As did two of her friends. I’m fairly convinced the immune system takes a hammering from Covid. I am concerned about it but what is the alternative?

@BeethovenNinth My daughter had shingles at the beginning of the year and I was very miffed and unsettled by it, she was only 11 then. I didn't even think it was possible for kids to get shingles!

People get shingles because they haven't been exposed to the chickenpox virus recently. Wild circulating chickenpox prevents you getting shingles.

From NHS:

You cannot get shingles from someone with shingles or chickenpox.
But you can get chickenpox from someone with shingles if you have not had chickenpox before.
When people get chickenpox, the virus stays in the body. It can be reactivated later and cause shingles if someone's immune system is weakened.
This can be because of stress, certain conditions, or treatments like chemotherapy.

Shingles - NHS (www.nhs.uk)

The primary risk factor for the emergence of shingles is a depleted/weakened immune system

medschool rat that is not true. My daughter has had chicken pox twice. Shingles is a reactivation of that and in my opinion it’s due to a sub optimal immune system. Her two friends had the same thing - all have had chicken pox

We all had covid four times in our house and my daughter has had shingles twice. Covid definitely messes up your immune system. We’ve all got brain fog too.

Bear in mind that the stories above are examples of what I referred to up thread as anecdata. I.e. not statistically significant and a self selecting sample. I'll worry when experiences like this are backed up by the data and relevant peer reviewed scientific research. I won't take my chances - I'm sure there are risks associated with COVID just like many other viruses - but I'm trying to avoid falling down internet rabbit holes about it.

There are now hundreds of papers on the effects of covid on the immune system, showing exactly which parts of it show depletion - I am disappointed to see a post that simply denies this body of evidence exists

Even if you don't have access to any specialist databases, using Google Scholar (or just plain google) will lead you to the peer-reviewed evidence (which began to emerge as early as 2020, and is now considerable)

It is supposed to be true that after you've had chickenpox then exposure to chickenpox in the future can help boost the immune response to help prevent shingles. It was given as part of the reason that the CP vaccine is not given as standard in the UK

My understanding is that it has been shown that COVID affects the immune system but not in a way that is significantly different or more worrying than many other common viruses.