Myths re lockdown was wrong

[Betsyhilton]

Just seen someone on another thread basically trying to claim that lockdown didnt reduce deaths. The contested John Hopkins survey seems to be encouraging people who basically behaved selfishly, ignored medical advice and did what they liked to now claim retrospectively that they just knew lockdown was wrong.

AIBU to think these are just basically selfish irresponsible people who ignored official advice at the time because it caused them inconvenience and are now jumping on any theory to try to justify their self centred behavior?

It’s 2023 now, lockdown was 3 years ago…
the time of shouting ‘Selfish!!!’ and moral superiority competitions over who was obeying the rules the best are LONG over now. Nobody cares, talk about something else.

Yep. The problem is there are people walking around confidently asserting that Covid was just a cold for them who really don't have the faintest idea what it's done to them yet. Not all but a percentage.

Virus injuries can take time to become clear even after an apparently full recovery. I speak from bitter experience here.

Genuine question - is that the case even if the impact of flu or covid or whatever the initial virus was negligible?

@MyOtherNameToday

It's interesting looking at the excess mortality statistics. That's the number of deaths over the expected (using the last 5 years) number of deaths.

I've seen so many people (not just here) asserting that cancer excess deaths are a huge issue due to covid: Well the excess deaths shows that really after January 2021 it's been approximately as expected at about 50/50 above/below expected and very few noticeably above/below-and again both ways.
I'm sure the people who want to believe lockdowns are totally wrong will be on shortly to assert confidently that it's not come through yet, and it's to come, but we can also see the worst excess death for cancer is around the two lockdowns: March 2020, and January 2021. So we can extrapolate from that, that if there had been more covid around, then there would have been more deaths that mention cancer on the death certificate.

Otoh Cerebrovascular diseases: (stroke, carotid stenosis, vertebral stenosis and intracranial stenosis, aneurysms, and vascular malformations) which are often associated with blood clotting etc which covid is known to effect, has been pretty consistently above the excess death numbers. In fact, since April 2022, there have only been 6 weeks where deaths from those haven't been above the excess.

Diabetes is another where they have been consistently above. Since the end of March 2020, there have only been 8 weeks where it hasn't been above.
Heart Failure again has been consistently above with only 18 weeks since March 2020 where it hasn't been above. The last week it was below was the week beginning April 1st 2022.
Both of those are known to be effected by covid infections.

And, oh yes, it's an old person's illness. Why are young people expected to protect the older ones?

But if you go by age, the numbers over the excess deaths are worst in the 50-64 age category. But the next worse, it's a toss up between the 65-74 or the 25-49.
Not something I would have expected really. Especially as the above illnesses tend to be associated with old age.

Honestly? I imagine so. For example lots of people with 'long covid' had relatively mild initial illness but their bodies have continued to react to the virus. I privately suspect that many of them now have an (as yet) undiagnosed autoimmune or neurological disease now.

clappyjay

Actually a lot of us still care. So many people made HUGE sacrifices and suffered a lot and the Government, as the current Covid inquiry is showing, were a shit show.

I think one of the studies found the increased heart attack and stroke risk was also there for people who only had covid very mildly to start with. I don't know if that counts as more of a short-term effect though as that happens straight after infection (and I think for at least a year after that).

Other illnesses can start with just a fever or short-term flu like symptoms, e.g. Lyme disease, but have nasty things happening further down the line. As I understand it the initial illness for HIV can also be mild and might be assumed at the time just to be a normal flu like bug.

Covid is its own creature so will have its own special features, and I guess we will find out eventually. Hard to see how having a large part of the population getting it lots and lots of times is sensible though, especially children who have so much more of their lives left for long-term effects to show up in.

I think the study they did into HEPA filters in classrooms in Bradford showed some promising effects in terms of reducing sickness absence rates. If air filtration is considered important for the House of Commons, you'd think it would be considered to be important for schools too.

I don't know, but Dr Fauci said that it's cumulative. The more times you have covid, the higher your risk of developing Parkinson's.

A possible link has been identified between COVID and Parkinson's but the conclusion is that the relationship is not likely to be causal.

My friends nine years old daughter developed Paediatric multisystem inflammatory syndrome (PIMS) after a mild case of Covid. Thankfully it appears to be a rare side effect from having Covid but can be very serious - needed hospital admission and monitoring for heart problems.

@Parker231

This also happened to a family member of mine. She was 11. Another family member in her teens developed labyrinthitis after Covid.

People often strongly cite children‘s welfare as a reason not to have restrictions during a pandemic - but with this view, I rarely see any kind of acknowledgement as to the potential impact on children’s health by letting a new virus circulate/mutate without prevention measures.

I agree.
My dd has severe mental health issues currently she is y11. She was in y7 during the pandemic. It's been a hard road. Had her grandparents died or became ill. That would have affected her even worse.

She felt reprieved not having to go to 'toxic' school.

You could argue that the future health of an entire generation of children is being put at risk, because adults (in the form of governments and big business) don't want the hassle and expense of trying to reduce the number of times kids get covid. They could set things up to help kids be ill less often, but they don't want to.

Sweden have just announced a ban on visitors to hospitals and care homes due to the increase in covid cases.

People with any cold symptoms must stay away from the elderly or vulnerable. They can still go to work but must socially distance from the colleagues.

People who feel ill with cold symptoms must stay home.

Interesting. And I don't imagine they are moaning about it.

The message around if you have symptoms or are sick are the same as before covid even existed, they're just reiterating them. So the only change is the visitor ban.

Where has this been announced? I can’t find it

I’ve just seen that about Sweden. Can’t find it again though.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-67272152

The Covid pandemic may have impacted brain health in people in the UK aged 50 and over, according to a new study.

More than 3,000 volunteers completed yearly questionnaires and online cognitive tests to measure changes in memory, and other faculties, as the pandemic unfolded.
The results revealed a decline, irrespective of Covid infection.
Stress, loneliness and alcohol consumption may explain some of the findings, experts say.
Coping with Covid fears, worries and uncertainties and disruption to routines may have had a "real, lasting impact" on brain health, they say.

The stuff that is coming up now was so obvious even at the time

All the damage

https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/besoksforbud-och-stabslage-covidsmittan-okar

This refers to some hospitals but I can’t find announcement of a ban

*HelinaHandcart · 21/10/2023 20:58

“Our family all had Covid when Covid wasn’t heard of in December 2019.”
How do you know that? There weren’t even Covid tests then*

*VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 21/10/2023 21:00

HelinaHandcart · 21/10/2023 20:58

“Our family all had Covid when Covid wasn’t heard of in December 2019.”
How do you know that? There weren’t even Covid tests then.
It's called "lying through his or her teeth"*

Just got back to this thread and saw this

It was December 2019. My dd was involved in an event that had a large amount of people who had come over from China for the event

Dd got ill first and she is rarely that ill that she misses work. She was off for the whole Christmas period.
Ds and then I went down with this awful flu.
Dh who is a diabetic funnily enough got ill for a couple of days then seemed to brush it off.

I lost my sense of smell (I have a sense of smell akin to a tracker dog) So that was something I remember. I also remember ds and I both saying at some point that We were struggling to breath. I woke up one night and thought I was dying as I couldn’t breath.And the cough which I normally get a cough when I get a cold but nothing like this cough. This cough was distinctively different.

Never thought it was anything to do with the infection in China

2 months later in February when Covid was still just a thing that could spread dd did an event at a hotel.
A few days later she got a call from her agency asking if she was feeing ok.
She was fine. She kept getting messages asking about her health from the agency. She ignored them as she was fine,

Eventually she rang back and asked why they kept asking about her health.
Apparently out if the 84 people and 6 staff members at the event (marriage of 2 people originally from overseas but both worked in London. So family had flown in for the event) There had been 10 deaths so far and every single guest and staff member apart from dd had gone down with a flu like infection as it was described and there had been multiple people who had been hospitalised. Dd was the only one who had been fine.

it wasn’t till the April that we read the symptoms for Covid and we ticked every single symptom for the illness we had the previous December.

We think dd must have been immune because of having Covid earlier

The strange thing is that dh who was in remission from Cancer and is type 1 diabetic with no spleen brushed off this illness. A couple of months later his mum who was mid 90s and in a care home and weighing about 5stone, we were informed she had tested positive for Covid. She had a little cough.

The next day she was fine.
I do think that how you deal with Covid is more down to your DNA than if you are elderly.

I'm a Swede living in Sweden but clearly I don't know what's happening here because you can't find what I know when you google in English. Righty oh.