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Covid

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New Zealand health messaging

84 replies

JustAnotherRandom · 21/06/2023 18:28

Spot the difference. Wash your hands and don't mention covid vs

twitter.com/covid19nz/status/1670943608428539905?s=46&t=G9BWOZlYGPa1_pR7aKkbHQ

OP posts:
JustAnotherRandom · 14/07/2023 12:19

"There's a lot to unpick here.

Firstly, people who make different value judgements to you about risks and benefits are not being dicks, just as people who feel more comfortable not socialising indoors and want to wear masks in public spaces aren't either."

Ok. To rephrase, In my opinion, people who tell someone they shouldn't go out because they have an asthmatic cough are dicks. I accept that they may believe I'm a dick for thinking that. People who have an issue with someone wearing a mask - in my opinion - are also dicks. Again, I accept that they may think the reverse is true.
It still makes them dicks in my eyes because I haven't yet heard an argument for why that isn't dickish behaviour.

"Any public health messaging or policies starting from that perspective will be at best a waste of time."
My issue with public health messaging is that it is not informative - telling people to exercise personal responsibility and assess risk without adequate information is poor form.

"Additionally, if you want to talk about risk management, you can't only pick the ones you like."
Any measure (including do nothing) has impacts, yes.

"So if you want people to be told they should stay in when they have minor symptoms, that means acknowledging that this will be used as a tool of coercive control by some abusers."
Yes, good point. Obviously, increased illness will also put someone in a more vulnerable position (current policy).

"and that some people will be told they shouldn't be in public spaces by others, as a consequence of the messaging"

yes, my 'dick' response

"These will disproprortionately be people who are already vulnerable in some way"

like those who wear masks and are berated by dicks because of it.

"because for all the comments on here about tutting at people who weren't wearing masks, got too close etc, people don't do that if they think it's going to get them slapped. They go for the easy targets."

Yes, as with anything

"Ultimately, you can if you like just tell people they should be doing X and Y. Sure. It's an option. But three and a half years into a pandemic, and having observed the failure in real world conditions of some of the provisions you mention"

which ones

"it's going to fall on a lot of deaf ears. You don't have to like that for it to be true. Meanwhile, those resources could be used for something we know would actually help like better sick pay"

The deaf ears if people are given appropriate information is one thing, deaf ears because they're not is another. I mentioned sick pay in an earlier post.

OP posts:
RafaistheKingofClay · 14/07/2023 12:29

the focus absolutely should be on ventilation in public places and work places but we’re not going to get anywhere with that without acknowledging the covid isn’t just a cold and that there are risks even when the acute systems are mild.

And better sick pay won’t do any good if you are still threatened with being fired or considered lazy if you don’t go into work with new minor respiratory symptoms.

JustAnotherRandom · 14/07/2023 12:30

Yep

OP posts:
Superdupes · 14/07/2023 12:50

I just hate this sort of thing. First she states that these things have been found in 'other places' with covid in the community for much longer - where exactly is she talking about? The US? Europe? China? She makes NZ sound like some kind of safe house from the rest of the world and that she wants to frighten people into keeping it that way.

Then I watched and was worried about the heightened risk of blood clots, heart issues and diabetes having had Covid myself. Concerned that if I got it again I'd have to be worried for the rest of my life thinking I was now at high risk for these things.

Then I looked into it a bit more and what she doesn't say for some reason is that the risk only last for a few weeks (or in the case of diabetes months) before it goes back to completely normal. To me that is just hugely misleading and the sort of thing that really, really pisses me off.

Then I read that the risk of diabetes with covid was found to affect 1% of people that were vaccinated - and that risk was with infection OR reinfection. So now this just really feels like it is all complete scaremongering and trying to frighten people who've already had covid and been fine into really fearing being infected again.

I also don't understand why they're not saying that the flu can cause increased risk of heart attack and stroke - has anyone seen NZ putting out helpful information telling people that? I didn't even know that till I looked it up. So why are people not giving flu this same attention?

StormShadow · 14/07/2023 13:39

RafaistheKingofClay · 14/07/2023 12:29

the focus absolutely should be on ventilation in public places and work places but we’re not going to get anywhere with that without acknowledging the covid isn’t just a cold and that there are risks even when the acute systems are mild.

And better sick pay won’t do any good if you are still threatened with being fired or considered lazy if you don’t go into work with new minor respiratory symptoms.

That's absolutely true. Though as an aside, I don't think covid is/isn't like a cold or flu isn't the best approach because people don't need any more encouragement to think those terms describe the severity of symptoms rather than the actual virus they have. Whoever came up with the bollocks about it not being flu if you wouldn't get out of bed for a £50 note has a lot to answer for!

Either way though, the best way to deal with it is by targeting messaging at employers about what they're responsible for in their workplaces. Not by trying to persuade the general public that it's socially unacceptable to go out with a cough or cold. Which would be the inevitable conclusion.

JustAnotherRandom · 15/07/2023 18:59

@Superdupes thanks. Do you have any sources you can point me to? Things may have moved on since I last looked.

OP posts:
RafaistheKingofClay · 15/07/2023 21:53

Superdupes · 14/07/2023 12:50

I just hate this sort of thing. First she states that these things have been found in 'other places' with covid in the community for much longer - where exactly is she talking about? The US? Europe? China? She makes NZ sound like some kind of safe house from the rest of the world and that she wants to frighten people into keeping it that way.

Then I watched and was worried about the heightened risk of blood clots, heart issues and diabetes having had Covid myself. Concerned that if I got it again I'd have to be worried for the rest of my life thinking I was now at high risk for these things.

Then I looked into it a bit more and what she doesn't say for some reason is that the risk only last for a few weeks (or in the case of diabetes months) before it goes back to completely normal. To me that is just hugely misleading and the sort of thing that really, really pisses me off.

Then I read that the risk of diabetes with covid was found to affect 1% of people that were vaccinated - and that risk was with infection OR reinfection. So now this just really feels like it is all complete scaremongering and trying to frighten people who've already had covid and been fine into really fearing being infected again.

I also don't understand why they're not saying that the flu can cause increased risk of heart attack and stroke - has anyone seen NZ putting out helpful information telling people that? I didn't even know that till I looked it up. So why are people not giving flu this same attention?

I don’t think that’s data I’ve seen. Do you know which study it came from. Most of the papers I’ve seen say that the risk is highest during infection and reduces over the following weeks but risks are still increased a year after infection. Some say subsequent infections increase the risk further.
It is true that flu also increases heart attacks and strokes but tends to be only in the elderly hence the flu vaccine program. Covid increases the risks across all age groups. I suspect it’s a much higher increase as well. Which is why you hear more about it.

SARSCOV2 is a nasty little fucker of a virus that seems to have the potential to damage virtually everything. There’s a reason the WHO and other experts refer to it as a mass disabling event.

JustAnotherRandom · 16/07/2023 20:07

That's what the studies I've seen tend to say, which is why I wondered (hoped) if things had moved on.

OP posts:
RafaistheKingofClay · 17/07/2023 09:44

Sadly, everything I see moving on seems to be moving on in the wrong direction.

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