New Zealand health messaging

[JustAnotherRandom]

Spot the difference. Wash your hands and don't mention covid vs

twitter.com/covid19nz/status/1670943608428539905?s=46&t=G9BWOZlYGPa1_pR7aKkbHQ

I hated wearing masks and barely went anywhere when they were compulsory. I'd put it on at the entrance to a shop, rush around and take it off as soon as I got to the exit.

I have no issue with other people wearing masks, that's down to them. Just don't expect me to wear one if I don't have to.

I’m totally pro improved air quality and everything, but that isn’t going to happen tomorrow unfortunately, and in the meantime I am subject to the rules of my employer, my children’s school, my children’s nursery, in order to keep a roof over our heads. Even if I wanted to, I couldn’t have my entire family masked every time we left the house, it would be impossible. Someone saying “I don’t understand why everyone doesn’t do what I do” completely lacks any ability to understand that someone else’s life is exactly like theirs.

Someone saying “I don’t understand why everyone doesn’t do what I do” completely lacks any ability to understand that someone else’s life is exactly like theirs.

Yes.

When it comes down to it, the fundamental reason I was against most restrictions from almost the start is that I would literally rather just catch a virus and die (if that is even a significant risk for me) than live in a world where I had to wear a mask all the time, had extremely limited contact with other humans, could not socialise indoors, etc. That was not living, that was barely existing. The "cure" was 100 times worse than the disease, for me.

I put up with it for the more-or-less 18 months it went on for, and that was horrendous enough, but threads like this make me all too aware that there are people - well-meaning people, I'm sure - who want everyone to go back to that way of "living" and perpetuate it indefinitely.

So that's why I just say to these people: you crack on. You do you. Want to wear a mask? Never enter a pub, or a theatre, or hug anyone ever again? Go ahead. However if those people are still (in 2023!) looking around in astonishment, wondering why 99.9% of people aren't doing the same as them, maybe they need to learn a bit more about the motivations of other people and maybe they need to realise that the Kool-Aid they're drinking isn't as palatable as they might think.

That was not living, that was barely existing.

I said that on either here or Twitter, I can't remember, and got asked what I was missing from my life, I could still live my life but wearing a mask.

There are many people who didn't die from Covid, but instead became disabled, homebound, bedridden etc. This is a much more common scenario than death. According to ONS figures about 2 mil of UK's population were left with some level of post-Covid illness or disability already, with half a million severely affected. Look up the science vlogger Dianna Cowern on Twitter and what happened to her.

Society-wide masking or distancing is not feasible or desirable, of course, but some infection control measures should have remained in hospitals or other areas where people have no choice over attending. Free testing should have remained available and encouraged before social events. Yearly vaccination, similar to flu, should be available to all age groups but perhaps for a fee for those not at heightened risk, again as with flu. Since Covid it should also be easier to provide online or other safer alternatives (such as outdoors-only or masked days for those who prefer it) for a variety of events or appointments. Opposition to even the slightest infection control initiative is not life-affirming or rational, it is ideological.

The truth is that the world has changed since 2019 and we must adapt to that, by accepting some changes in society (again, nobody is asking for eternal lockdown or permanent masking in places of leisure, FFS). There is a record number of people off sick not working, and also record numbers of sickness absence in schools, and this will perhaps increase with more repeat infections that cause more health damage. Reality is happening even for those who deny it, illness and biology are objectively real in a way that economy and politics aren't.

Yearly vaccination, similar to flu, should be available to all age groups but perhaps for a fee for those not at heightened risk, again as with flu.

Fine, providing we don't go back to the days of Covid passes and discussions about whether someone is vaccinated or not. I hated how someone's medical details suddenly seemed to be public property

Since Covid it should also be easier to provide online or other safer alternatives (such as outdoors-only or masked days for those who prefer it) for a variety of events or appointments

What sort of events and appointments do you have in mind?

Society-wide masking or distancing is not feasible or desirable, of course

I'm glad you accept that. There are still people on Twitter fucking loons who seem to want this!

some infection control measures should have remained in hospitals or other areas where people have no choice over attending.

This is where the slippery slope starts to occur. The manner in which people were kept apart from their dying relatives was wrong and utterly evil in my view. My Dad thankfully died (I never thought I would say that) well before Covid, but if he had been in hospital during 2020/21 I presumably would have not been able to say goodbye to him in a reasonable way and would only have been able to see him through masks and Perspex screens. I was glad I was able to hold him properly and hug him before he died, despite the no doubt terrible virus transmission opportunities that would have entailed.

Free testing should have remained available and encouraged before social events

Testing may be free at the point of use but obviously it is not free; who pays for this?

Would you be OK with the fact that 99% of people will just say: no, I won't bother with a test, I'll just carry on, thanks?

If not, will you go further down the slippery slope towards shame and coercion?

And when we talk about social events, what kinds of events did you have in mind? Me visiting my Mum? Me going to the pub with a bunch of my friends? Going to a gig or the theatre? The Notting Hill Carnival? Wimbledon? Cheltenham? Glastonbury?

My experience of 2020-2021 is why I don't trust people who talk this way, because the direction was always more coercion, more restriction, more measures. Nobody in so-called "Independent Sage" or zero-covid Twitter ever argued that restrictions were too tough, or that we weren't coming out of lockdowns soon enough.

The truth is that the world has changed since 2019 and we must adapt to that, by accepting some changes in society

This is where you need to be crystal clear about what you actually want. The world is always changing, that doesn't mean we have to also deliberately make societal changes all of the time. That seems like a fallacy to me. It's up to you, proposing a particular change, to justify why the change is necessary.

OK, well, if it's not acceptable to do ANYTHING at all whatsoever or to tell anyone that they should do anything whatsoever to control Covid lest it come off too authoritarian, let me flip it the other way:

What do the people who oppose all infection control measures propose to do about the increasingly diminishing workforce? What do you propose to do about rampant absence in schools? What do you propose to do about the increasing rate of illness and disability in the general population? Who will take care of ill people? Do you think these things will just stop happening if you clap your hands, wish for it really hard, and go to the pub? How do you think society will continue to source staff for necessary jobs?

Honestly. It's like we all live in lala land.

Or the economic cost of all those things. Because there is an economic cost.

Nobody is saying that we need to go into lockdown again, but honest public health messaging should be an absolute basic. Wear a mask/ don’t wear a mask do whatever you like but don’t get your knickers in a twist if public health messaging says covid comes with risks or recommends masks in crowded indoor areas or public transport. People need to be properly informed to make personal decisions. We shouldn’t not do that because some people don’t like public health messaging.

What do the people who oppose all infection control measures propose to do about the increasingly diminishing workforce? What do you propose to do about rampant absence in schools? What do you propose to do about the increasing rate of illness and disability in the general population? Who will take care of ill people? Do you think these things will just stop happening if you clap your hands, wish for it really hard, and go to the pub? How do you think society will continue to source staff for necessary jobs?

Honestly? I do not think this is a real problem, but if it is, it does not go away by coercing the remainder of the population to not live their normal lives. If that is what you mean by the euphemism "infection control measures"

I'd like to see us focus more on improving ventilation and air quality, rather than mask laws or other restrictions that won't be observed and can't be enforced. Open to suggestions and ideas on how we do it, but that's got to be the focus rather than trying to get people to do things they clearly don't buy into.

That would be the ideal and better sick pay to encourage people to spend time at home. Along with wider access to vaccination for those who want it.

Yep we definitely need improved sick pay. Ours was a disgrace long before covid. It disgusts me the amount of money we wasted on all kinds of bollocks during the pandemic, yet still spent two years where people had a legal obligation to isolate without proper financial support. There were cases where people were simply priced out of staying at home.

The problem is the advocates for mask wearing are going to be going back to the criticism and nit picking towards those who don't. I know Twitter is a fess pit at the best of times but the pro mask loons are still out in force there (I only call them loons because of the way they go on, not because they choose to wear a mask).

I agree there should be choice about vaccination but it has to be that, choice. Not 'you can't do this or that, you haven't had a vaccine' and anyone who chooses not to being labelled an anti vaxxer.

I kind of hoped a pandemic would sort that. Apparently I had too much faith in our government.

The Tories? When they could instead turn a public health issue into a criminal one and introduce laws that disproportionately penalised black and Asian people?! Yeah I think you had too much faith there...

We are still careful and only my husband has had covid. My child has serious health issues and she is currently home educated and has been since just before covid as her attendance was so poor because she was always poorly. Now she is healthier than she has ever been and happy too! Still under the consultant but never caught covid because we are careful. Wear a mask in very busy places and in health care settings.

What I do not understand is why the UK press play down covid when long covid is such a huge issue. I have a family member who works at the local hospital and she is constantly poorly now since having covid. Before covid she was hardly ever poorly. She said lots of colleagues are off with long covid so why did the NHS remove masks? I just don't understand it.

Washing your hands does not stop the spread of an airborne illness.

"Infection" "Control" "Measures"

My dad died in 2018. I'm frankly glad he died then because otherwise he would have had to endure the horror of 2020/21.

What "infection control measures" should have been put in place to ensure I couldn't have comforted and hugged my dying dad and taken him out to the pub with his friends and family, for drinks and meals and laughs and entertainment (as we enjoyed in 2017 and 2018), during 2020 and 2021? Instead, he should have suffered and died alone in a hospital behind a mask and a screen, while all his social options were closed off? THAT would have been fine?

Normal life should NEVER have been suspended for Covid. Ever. Not for one fucking second. End of. It's too fucking precious, and anyone who belittles it needs to be exposed as the beep-boop automaton they are.

She said lots of colleagues are off with long covid so why did the NHS remove masks? I just don't understand it.

I can only speak from my own observations, and I don't work in the NHS so these are only as a patient and visitor. But from what I saw, by this year a lot of the staff just weren't buying into it any more. People half wearing them, not wearing them, pulling them up only when they might be seen. You need general agreement of the workforce for something like constant masking to work.

Informed choice - proper health messaging to allow people to make informed choices would be a start. There's almost like a forced pretence to act as though the initial infection is the only concern, despite the ever growing body of research showing how it can affect pretty much every organ and mental health. How much of this damage is not even realised yet, let alone the 2 million with long covid. Phrases such as if it helps 'anxiety' or 'confidence', wear a mask - wtf is that about?!

Infection control - last time I checked, 10% of people who caught covid in hospital died. Sickness levels for health staff due to infections have rocketed. The people who often need hospital the most have to weigh up whether it's safer to attend or safer to let medical conditions worsen.

Kids - theories that it's somehow good for kids to catch covid or helps their immune system - what evidence is this based on? Schools are important for lots (not all) kids. Attendance is seen as vitally important - how are elevated levels of viruses helping that? Air filters help with concentration, reduce asthma, heavily reduce risk of catching viruses. Surely that's got to be better for kids than harming their immune system and encouraging high sickness levels and fewer teachers?! Obviously some kids have died, some live with vulnerable people, thousands have long covid, thousands more have caregivers who have long covid which impacts finances and ability to 'do stuff' with their children, covid is linked to mental health issues, kids have food issues where taste/smell is impacted, kids have been orphaned etc. Kids are also not some magical beings different to the rest of the human race - they catch it, they spread it, they have organs.

Sick pay - some firms will allow people to wfh if well enough but infectious, which obviously benefits their workforce, company and clients. Others value presenteeism or feel they cannot allow staff to remain at home - taxpayer picks up the bill for these people and firms, just as it does for firms that won't pay an actual living wage. Sick pay needs looking at, irrespective of covid.

The world has changed. There is a cost to that change whether we do something or not. Irrespective of that, honest messaging shouldn't be so hard.

Well said! I wish everyone had the same mindset then life would be a lot easier. 😀

Because they don't work, unless proper fit tested ones used for aerosol generating procedures! Three NHS workers in my family, covid 5 times in my household. And yes my mask was always on properly having been very ill with covid March 2020 pre PPE so i was very anxious not to get it again! Adult child nurse got it first day on covid ward wearing mask properly!

Aboslutely happy to support all that - I am particularly pro structural solutions to structural problems

what I object to is the fake baffled and judgemental “I don’t understand why people are doing <insert thing I perceive as too risky and irresponsible>” with zero acknowledgment that all the above is not going to be sorted tomorrow and in the meantime taking all those personal precautions is simply impossible for some people

I would rather not live at all than be in a society of masked, joyless people, distancing, restrictions and passports. That’s how strongly I feel about it.

I don’t care if I live a shorter life - I have but one life.

I never ever EVER want to see people dying alone. People unable to see and grieve dying loved ones. I never EVER want to see children - who have one childhood - locked away. Young people shut off

i read posts above and think people arguing for measures sound deranged and joyless. Sorry - this is how I feel - and I remain of the view we should never have locked down as we did

FWIW my teen has had the works since covid - anorexia - self harm- can’t attend school any more. That this was done to her by zealots makes me extremely angry.