Sick of narrative that lockdowns were pointless

[Bagzzz]

I think lots of people are forgetting quite how scary the early days were, overwhelmed hospitals and exhausted (and now a lot burnt out) medical staff.

Many mistakes were made and some things that might have have been avoided but we know with the benefit of hindsight.
Scientists if not politicians were doing their best.

Maybe could distinguish later lockdowns but they weren’t done lightly either, knowing it would affect mental health and business.

I supported none of the lockdowns. I didn't support furlough, and I didn't support the "people will die" narrative (because, yes, people will die every day of the year, but not of Covid). I didn't adhere to them, either, and didn't insist that my teenagers adhere to them (nobody gave a shit that their GCSEs and A levels were wrecked, quite apart from their need to see their friends). Fortunately, my friends also chose not to adhere to it either.

I think I could go either way. I think they were right at the time, given what we knew.

Knowing what I know now, I think the correct thing would be to let those who were prepared to risk it crack on with life. Old people shouldn't have spent their last years alone and miserable. It should have been their choice. What's the point of living to 90, if you're alone? I'm scared for one of my children's long term mental health and would have continued as normal for their sake.

Knowing what I know now, I think the correct thing would be to let those who were prepared to risk it crack on with life

But why couldn't you see this at the time? You sound like an intelligent person. How the fuck couldn't people see this then, rather than now? I could see it then, and so could all my friends. Not because we are superhuman but because it was so fucking obvious.

Sorry - I'm not angry with you but, as mentioned, I am absolutely furious about lockdown even now. Because it was so clearly a stupid idea.

@RonaLisa

"But why couldn't you see this at the time? You sound like an intelligent person. How the fuck couldn't people see this then, rather than now? I could see it then, and so could all my friends. Not because we are superhuman but because it was so fucking obvious. "

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I am not saying you are wrong nor superhuman and yes it was obvious at the time.

But you are forgetting that there was enormous governmental pressure, media pressure, social media pressure and the majority of the public were fully behind the lockdown measures.

Yes there were a significant number of people saying this was the wrong approach but they were shouted down as ant vaxx, Covid deniers, granny killers. There was even a campaign against those accused of spreading misleading information - people even lost their jobs for expressing opinions that went against the "popular message".

The sad reality is that for most people it is easier to go with the mainstream view especially if this is the Government narrative than it is to stick your head above the parapet with a different view.

My takeaway from the whole thing is that if you create enough fear and the right bogeyman you can get the public to agree to things they would never normally agree to. It has interesting parallels with the rise of Nazism and I strongly recommend a read of the Ickabog by JK Rowling as an "animal farm esque " parable of the worldwide reaction to Covid.

No, you're not a psychic and you didn't know the mental damage that would come or the length of time we'd be in lockdown. So presumably you just didn't listen because the rules didn't apply to you, not because you knew better. I am an intelligent person, so I listened to the experts who made the decisions on the information they had.

I'm saying with 20/20 hindsight knowing the risks etc it's not a decision I'd have made. But we did not know that. And I'm not a selfish twat.

It doesn't have to be either or lots of mistakes were made and restrictions went on far to long and and many didn't make sense ,but the narrative that we !locked down to protect the elderly just wasent true ,,what would have happened if
covid had been left to run riot?we saw the scenes coming out of Italy and the bodies piling,up .

Unless you have access.to the security services files, and know all the details, I don't see how you can be furious, when you only have the media perspectives

OMG People arent allowed their feelings now if they were against the lockdowns Chilling

It's more of a case when they spout things like "Lockdown was clearly a mistake at the outset, and anyone with half a brain could see it." That's does not help their perspectives especially if they only have part of the facts, and have not studied all appropriate data, before arriving at their conclusions.

@x2boys

"It doesn't have to be either or lots of mistakes were made and restrictions went on far to long and and many didn't make sense ,but the narrative that we !locked down to protect the elderly just wasent true ,,what would have happened if
covid had been left to run riot?we saw the scenes coming out of Italy and the bodies piling,up ."

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I agree that in an ideal world it shouldn't have to be either, that extra money is made available to schools for post Covid catch up as promised, more money for mental health support, more money for cancer treatment etc etc. But as Liz Truss just found out that after spending £450 billion on Covid support there is no money left.

As for the rationale for the lockdowns this changed over time from flattening sombrero to stopping the NHS being overwhelmed and yes there was a narrative that lockdowns/ restrictions were there to protect the elderly:

www.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-britain-idUKKBN25Z0UN

Lastly what would have happened if Covid had been left to run riot? The answer is no one knows or will ever know because there were lockdowns and restrictions. All we can give is personal opinions on what would have happened if Covid lockdowns/ restrictions were longer, shorter or

I find it a little odd when people talk about how everyone has had Covid (Omicron) over this year and they're all fine, so lockdowns during the first year (when it was very different and more deadly) was a terrible idea. I don't know if they've just not coped very well and it's led them to forget the bodies piling up in 2020 or what.

The majority of Europe was in lockdown - and over half of humanity. When you look at the global picture we weren’t doing anything vastly different to other comparable countries.
The basic tenet of science is consensus scientific opinion. So globally, the majority opinion was that lockdown was the best way to control the spread/save lives before the vaccine.

It’s more about the way it was managed in the UK, with ministers partying through it. So I don’t think the science was wrong - but the way our UK government implemented it - was.

I suppose it’s easy to be critical of the government for imposing lockdowns and restrictions. But let’s remember there was lots of pressure to go into lockdown from
the media, aswell as the medical professionals.
Unfortunately , the furlough scheme encouraged fraud by unscrupulous bogus companies. Fake businesses set up to claim loans and grants. Fraudsters could set up a company and claim £50k very easily!

I don’t think enough due diligence was done enough when it came to furlough. Not to mention other multi million pound business that could have paid their staff themselves but chose to let the government do it.

And at the same time the govt CHOSE to exclude over 3 million self employed/freelancers/casual workers from the covid support schemes. It wasn't "accidental" as there were specific exclusions imposed on those groups that weren't imposed on other groups, such as the 50:50 rule which didn't apply to employees claiming furlough, the £50K exclusion which didn't apply to employees, the timelag/delay exclusion which only applied to self employed, and so on. It was absolutely criminal that they put in no checks against the fraudsters (apparently there wasn't time) but they found to time to dream up ways of excluding certain types of workers who they clearly didn't feel "worthy" of support. Absolutely blooding criminal, and now Rishi, the guy who caused all this, was promoted to PM. You couldn't make it up!

The media were all in support of lockdown. I don't give a toss about security services files - I give a toss about the people I know who took their own lives because of lockdown. I also give a toss about my own business, which was screwed. This is why I'm angry.

I agree with every word that @user1497207191 says, too.

This is true, too.

FOI's have since shown that hospitals in my country were pretty empty. There was no emergency and the media/government lied about hospitals being overrun.

I agree. A huge amount of people don’t understand, and never did, what the purpose of the lockdowns was. Even by March 2020, covid had escaped control and was always going to become
endem.

The purpose of the lockdowns was not to stop us all getting covid, it was to ensure that we didn’t all catch covid at the same time, in which case there wouldn’t be enough hospital beds to save the lives of those who needed treatment.

Lockdowns saved many many lives by ensuing that those who needed hospital treatment for covid could get it, and that isn’t pointless.

It wasn’t just old people, either. My kid was in hospital for something else in 2021 and the children’s department had an entire separate ward for the children so seriously ill with covid that they required hospital admission. I imagine their parents are grateful that hospital beds were available!!

I don’t know what country you were in but this certainly wasn’t the case in UK. I visited hospitals in that time frame and they were insanely overcrowded and at breaking point. Italy was the same.

I’ve also worked for the government in the past and the idea that the UK government is competent enough to manage a huge conspiracy like that is laughable. I cannot of course speak for your country, perhaps you live in North Korea, I don’t know.

Thank you for saying this about funerals. Six fucking people at my mom's funeral in May 2020 and nothing afterwards. I'm still angry now (although I don't know who with). She was robbed of a fan send off and I can't get over it. No, we can't do anything now - too sodding late.

I don't necessarily agree with the government's decisions- the timing, length or the 'rules' of lockdown, but something needed to be done at the start. Working in a hospital it was no joke, pushing the can down the road until we knew more about treatment and had some plan re vaccinations was required. It wasn't just the elderly dying, we had all sorts of demographics admitted for this new, emergent respiratory illness which had horrific effects for some on other functions and organs- it was terrifying. Short of just leaving these people to die in the streets something had to be done to try and hold numbers back for a bit. The plan was never zero covid, but covid we know how it transmits, we know which treatments help, and we have a plan for immunity on a global scale.

I do think some of the stuff was crazy though so am not claiming in any way, shape or form that I thought it was amazing and faultless and nothing bad would come of it.

Look at China now, est 15 to 25k Cv related deaths, daily, as they unlock into a mainly unvaccinated population.

Even if you don't believe that, huge numbers of sick, economists think it will trigger another and/or make the current recession far worse with supply chain issues.

Omicron is less severe than Delta, which was the variant we had at the time.

I suppose people who think LDs were not needed also think the Moon landings were fake and Trump won the election?

@BorisisaLune

Given your criticism of anyone questioning the need for the lockdowns as a conspiracy theorist (and repeating my earlier post on this point) presumably then you feel that the price of the lockdowns in terms of missed cancer and cardiovascular disease, increases in mental health problems, loss of education, economic damage, increase in poverty as a result and the fact that excess deaths are now higher than during Covid... was a price that was worth paying?

www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-are-excess-deaths-higher-now-than-during-covid/

@MinkyGreen

"It’s more about the way it was managed in the UK, with ministers partying through it. So I don’t think the science was wrong - but the way our UK government implemented it - was."

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So given that politicians and ministers were partying through or generally ignoring the restrictions including Boris Johnson who had not long been discharged from hospital do you think that this was because a) they believed the scientific advice was right but that they all had a death wish and didn't care if they caught Covid or b) that they knew something the public didn't and didn't fully believe the scientific advice.