Sick of narrative that lockdowns were pointless

[Bagzzz]

I think lots of people are forgetting quite how scary the early days were, overwhelmed hospitals and exhausted (and now a lot burnt out) medical staff.

Many mistakes were made and some things that might have have been avoided but we know with the benefit of hindsight.
Scientists if not politicians were doing their best.

Maybe could distinguish later lockdowns but they weren’t done lightly either, knowing it would affect mental health and business.

But what you ignore is my question "why did no other country do as you suggest?"

Several American states such as Florida did, and I have repeatedly answered this for you, and you have totally ignored it

Might be wrong but Florida isn't a country, i ignored nothing.

Florida had a death rate similar to the worst performing state, it wasn't too far behind and overall, the USA saw over 1.1m deaths.

There is some limited research that Asian countries were more compliant with instructions, early mask wearing, draconian LD's and tracking of movement via phones and credit cards and that genetically, had a higher immunity to CV than Western countries.

We ve all had CV recently, all vaccinated all under 60, my partner bought it into work, where around half (8 in the office) went down with it, all had time off and a few inc me & partner are still coughing/or fatigue/chest pains 2 months later, i accept this is all anecdotal.

I just don't buy into your narrative that there were easy answers and solutions to the situation in 2020.

Personally, i'd look at how Germany handled Covid, far lower death rate and less damage to their economy/lower Govt borrowing costs too, our experiment with Truss and gilt yields have cost us dear, even pre Truss.

@helford

"Florida had a death rate similar to the worst performing state, it wasn't too far behind and overall, the USA saw over 1.1m deaths."

++++

This statement is factually incorrect.

Florida had the 13th worst death rate out of 50 states, but this was skewed by an older than average aged population.

www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

Might be wrong but Florida isn't a country, i ignored nothing

Covid policy is set at the state level. So it is very relevant.

Florida had a death rate similar to the worst performing state, it wasn't too far behind and overall, the USA saw over 1.1m deaths

They did better than many strict lockdown states and about the same as lockdown loving New York—and that’s not even adjusting for the older population in Florida.

439 worst state death rate per capita VS Florida at 380 per capita (Worldmeters)

As i said similar.

So i was correct & of course Florida did have an older population, which exactly proves what i was saying - no country, state or region did as @MintyFreshOne is saying, like i said, ask why?

The willingness of some on here to allow the deaths of the elderly (anyone over 65) is quite shocking.

They did better than many strict lockdown states and about the same as lockdown loving New York—and that’s not even adjusting for the older population in Florida

NY has greater poverty & is colder, so what?
Now you are just putting in caveats to back up your ridiculous theories.

As i said, no country in the world did as you say, what states did with no external border control in the same country is irrelevant.

@helford

The willingness of some on here to allow the deaths of the elderly (anyone over 65) is quite shocking.

I'm constantly shocked by this, although I really shouldn't be by now. These posters tend to be generally nasty types, too.

Florida did better than NY without locking down, whether or not you take age (by FAR the biggest risk factor). I’m sorry that is not welcome news to you.

DeSantis specifically met with the GBD advocates and made policies in line with their suggestions. So what you are saying is just not true.

*take into account

Age is absolutely, and obviously, a factor. However, as I noted earlier, any society (and those in charge) looks after the more vulnerable within that society. That includes the elderly. This is what public health and pandemic planning policies are about. I wouldn't wish to live in any society that didn't care for their citizens - all of them, or thought certain categories didn't deserve looking after in a crisis. Where does it stop? Do you withdraw care for all non-wage earners? How about profoundly disabled children? Where is your awful line?

A pandemic was expected. Due to our NHS being decimated we did not have the infrastructure and staff in place to cope.

So lockdown helped to some extent with bed and staffing issues. However, the nightingales were pure political posturing.

NHS cannot work with covid but this now counts on the sick record which I don't think is acceptable.

Boris and co partying and socialising whilst people missed their loved ones dying and their funerals is unforgivable

NHS staff cannot work if they have covid

No one is saying age isn't a factor, its a huge one, its just that some of us aren't Nazi's

Good lord. Why even bother. Anyway, the trend is thankfully turning against lockdowns as a method of disease control.

After you see how Sweden and select American states got through without lockdowns, why would you consider them in future?

I ask you—why is it such a problem to allow low-risk groups to live and work normally during a pandemic?

This isn’t a result of GBD. Florida did very well following GBD recommendations and didn’t just let the elderly die.

Sweden didn’t carry on as normal though just that they seem to be more compliant than us, so avoided large groups, met outside etc without having to have an enforced lockdown. Also very different demographic to us.

There were also restrictions/mitigation in schools in Sweden so schools didn’t carry as normal

like what? They didn’t wear masks and didn’t have that ridiculous close contact quarantine policy

One wonders how you’ll explain away Florida … doing pretty much as well as any other US state without lockdowns

Florida with no border controls, would have benefitted from the LD's other states took, as indeed with their economy too.

Still no actual countries that did as you suggest?

Sweden, has an excellent health service too.

What about Germany, how do you explain away their relative low death toll?

I ask you—why is it such a problem to allow low-risk groups to live and work normally during a pandemic?

Because its impractical, our economy and public services are so inter related.
How for example would you open a bar but ban the over 65s from using it? or police who is "vulnerable" or not, how would you know?

You'd end up with e.g. a 65 yo lorry driver delivering beer to pub that he isn't allowed in to because of age and that he is on blood pressure meds or pupils going to school but their maths teacher who is over weight and with a pace maker not allowed into the school.
About 2/3rd of the population are classed as obese, most in the age group 54 to 65 (male)

The idea that certain groups could be excluded from society was quickly abandoned by all countries, even very authoritarian ones.

Florida with no border controls, would have benefitted from the LD's other states took, as indeed with their economy too

This makes no sense. USA is a continent, Florida is comparable to an EU state tbh.

Because its impractical, our economy and public services are so inter related.
How for example would you open a bar but ban the over 65s from using it? or police who is "vulnerable" or not, how would you know

I wouldn’t ban anyone from a pub. It’s your choice to go or not—but if you are elderly or vulnerable, you may consider not going. You are not banned from shops, but you should be advised to shop online. Pretty much just want to let people do their own risk assessments based on the data.

The idea that certain groups could be excluded from society was quickly abandoned by all countries, even very authoritarian ones

GBD does not require banning any groups. Where do you get this idea? The unvaccinated were banned from certain spaces though, so what you are saying is really false here.

Do pigeons just make stuff up too?

@helford

"439 worst state death rate per capita VS Florida at 380 per capita (Worldmeters)

As i said similar."

++++

So the issue here is the use of the word "similar".

Using worldmeters data the worst state deaths per capita was 439 (Arizona and Mississippi) compared to Florida at 380 (a differential of 59) compared to the average of all states at 323 (a differential of 57).

So given your use of the word "similar" it would be equally correct to state that :

Florida despite less restrictions had a similar covid death rate per capita than the average covid death rate per capita across all states in the US.

Which of course is an entirely different statement than yours which is Florida had a similar covid death rate per capita than the worst performing state in terms of Covid death rates.

Can you now see how your post was at best misleading and at worst factually incorrect?

Your obesity figures are way off! 2022 data indicates that 27% of the population is obese with the largest group being 65-74yr old males. We also don't need t legislate for any groups. People need to take responsibility for themselves and if they are CV, they should take the necessary precautions.