Sick of narrative that lockdowns were pointless

[Bagzzz]

I think lots of people are forgetting quite how scary the early days were, overwhelmed hospitals and exhausted (and now a lot burnt out) medical staff.

Many mistakes were made and some things that might have have been avoided but we know with the benefit of hindsight.
Scientists if not politicians were doing their best.

Maybe could distinguish later lockdowns but they weren’t done lightly either, knowing it would affect mental health and business.

Only idiots would say we didn’t need lockdowns at the time we had them. There was no other way of controlling the spread. Covid killed lots of people who wouldn’t otherwise have died at that point, we didn’t know how serious it wa likely to be then, and sure enough it has left a lot more people with debilitating ongoing long Covid symptoms since the first wave.

Nobody really wants to acknowledge long Covid as a massive risk of Covid exposure because now governments globally want to pretend Covid is NBD. That would only be ethical if they and employers were also offering good support to patients with LC … which is definitely not happening.

Lockdowns were necessary before the vaccines were widely available. It was not only old people who died of Covid, and anyone who thinks the NHS could have carried on with general care while also dealing with Covid clearly doesn't know anyone who worked for the NHS in April 2020 or January 2021.

The politics of tiers and messaging around the restrictions was shit because we were unfortunate enough to have the worst possible Prime Minister at the worst possible time.

So what are you saying, we should have locked down harder? I remember posters on here holding up China as an example of how we should be locking down which was bloody scary.

You are putting words in my mouth, did i say we should have locked down harder?

China is an evil totalitarian regime, no one should be holding them up as an example of how to do things.

My point is there are pros and cons, a harsher LD might mean less deaths but at what cost?

Probably worth paying if you get to live and see your Grand kids again, younger and single? maybe not.

The tier's system wasn't just England though. It was also in Scotland, earlier and longer than England. Not sure about the other area of the uk.

There are areas here which only saw restrictions lifted for a few weeks in 2020 before the levels were introduced. And the rules surrounding them were just nuts.

Whilst I agree with your comments on boris, the other first ministers, certainly these of Scotland and wales, really didn't come out well. It was like a competition of to see who could introduce the most ridiculous rules.

I was allowed to leave my own level into another for work, but was expected to drive past the door of the supermarket in that level and drive 15 miles out of my way home just to go into a supermarket in my own level.

The whole levels/tiers thing just showed how ridiculous lockdowns were.

No, it was a genuine question. You were saying we were lax compared to other countries, many of which were far too harsh, and I was wondering what the options were. Personally I think lockdown went on for too long so maybe a shorter, harder lockdown would have been better but who knows? I certainly wouldn't have backed it at the time!

I completely agree about China and I'd like to think the people who were saying we should follow their lead were stirring but again who knows? It wouldn't surprise me if some people genuinely thought locking people away was a good idea.

I don't think my elderly family would have backed a harsher lockdown. My uncle hated it. He'd had a hip replacement a month or so before and wanted to be out testing out his new mobility! I must admit I found reasons to go and visit them - he's in his late 80s and I haven't got much family left now (I kept my distance obviously). DH was a handyman at the time and my Uncle used to find 'urgent' jobs that needed doing and I used to 'deliver food'. This was during the first lockdown, during subsequent ones we followed them less strictly but the choice was always his.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat I think the first LD was about right but started too late.
We would talk about this socially and be amazed there was further delay and more delay, BJ's shaking hands stuff was laughable, anyone with a modicum of sense knew this.

The other LDs seemed pointless, people weren't obeying them, yes pubs etc closed but people met up in homes & gardens instead, Tiers were a joke.

e.g 1st LD dead quiet roads, cycled for miles in places i never would normally, 2nd/3rd LD, roads as per normal.

However, we are now seeing countries introducing travel restrictions on the Chinese, this thing may yet come back again.

I honestly don't think anyone will obey future lockdowns in the same way. I know we can't go to pubs and hairdressers etc if they aren't open, but who is going to be told who they can and can't see in their own home again? It will be like the second and third lockdowns. I believe for most people that ship has well and truly sailed.

One thing I do wonder is if the people who were reporting neighbours for any little thing, demanding people only buy what they deemed essential (I was called thick on here for buying chocolate, that was next to the till, when I bought milk) etc. have looked back at their behaviour and thought 'what on earth was I doing?'.

My neighbour didn't live with her partner and they used to time their supermarket shop so they could see each other. When she let it slip to me she was worried I'd report them, think less of them etc. It wouldn't even have crossed my mind, but that was how some people were made to feel by the stories we were hearing.

Agree with Covid but with something more serious?

The issue with Covid is we all knew loads of people who caught it and survived with few if any effects, so we ignored or played the rules we could.

I would only consider locking down again for something akin to the bubonic plague or something dangerous to children. If it’s mainly the very elderly again, I definitely won’t be.

I honestly don't think anyone will obey future lockdowns in the same way.

I agree completely. If they had left it with the first lockdown then the population would still be able to take a stay at home order seriously, but the subsequent lockdowns were so farcical and as hindsight has shown us how damaging they were to mental health that if the need comes for us to lockdown again, people will make their own choices about what is safest for them.

@Roundandnour And yet Labour were calling for an lockdown in January last year 🤔

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/03/keir-starmer-calls-for-immediate-lockdown-in-england-as-covid-cases-soar

And this is a shining example of the disgusting attitudes that were so prevalent over the last two years. I hope, if you have children, you aren't teaching them that the elderly don't matter and children are much more important than them. Wrong. Everyone in society counts.

Yes, everyone in society counts. Including those who mentally cannot cope with being forced to stay in their homes.

Physical health is not more important than mental health.

If it happens again, the people who are physically vulnerable can do what they need to do to protect themselves, and those who are vulnerable mentally can do the same.

You can’t just pick a group of people that you feel is expendable and then think that everyone else that you do care about will be fine. Covid doesn’t work that way. That’s why they had to have lockdowns.

www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/deaths-covid-19

The elderly were paid lip service only.
Shunting people with covid back into nursing homes
Isolated from their loved ones
Benches closed off our removed so that they couldn't keep their exercise up. On a personal note this happened to my father in law, preventing him from doing his shopping and getting some social interaction. He'd already lost his social outlet that he partook in several days per week, travelling independently around the area. By January 21 he'd lost his levels of mobility and was depressed and neglecting himself.

Now elderly people have to battle through the cold and shuffle into a warm hub together, sharing seasonal bugs in stuffy premises if they can't afford to heat their homes.

I saw some disgusting attitudes during lockdown, some on here and I don't think that poster's comment even gets into the top 10. I live alone, for months I was told I couldn't invite anyone into my home, so for that time my human contact was limited to Teams meetings with colleagues, supermarket staff and anyone brave enough to ignore the SD rules when we met while taking exercise. THAT was disgusting and I'm never doing it again.

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain

I saw some disgusting attitudes during lockdown, some on here and I don't think that poster's comment even gets into the top 10. I live alone, for months I was told I couldn't invite anyone into my home, so for that time my human contact was limited to Teams meetings with colleagues, supermarket staff and anyone brave enough to ignore the SD rules when we met while taking exercise. THAT was disgusting and I'm never doing it again.

We're not playing top trumps here. Lots of people had it tough - I'm sorry you did too. I'm discussing a general feeling towards the elderly (and the vulnerable, too). This is outside what you are describing.

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain it's things like your story that I find so distressing, am so sorry that happened. And I really can't believe that we are sliding back into 2020 with so much of the 'selfish' and 'you want people to die' posts have been seeing on mn recently with people advocating for lockdown again!

Well I won't be abiding by any future lockdown rules. Clinically vulnerable people can choose to isolate and everyone else should be free to make their own decision. I've had covid several times and suffer from long covid but I'd happily have it again over the crippling effects of a lockdown.

People did not need to have it that tough is the whole point!
How did we as a society let that happen!
Don't we want to know that similar tough future decisions might be approached from considering the additional hands they will be doing and how to mitigate them?
It was ludicrous that people living alone were so isolated from the get go.
It's not top trumps but unless we acknowledge where we went wrong, how do we make better decisions? Individually and as a society. As people have pointed out again and again, even if lockdown was necessary, surely we would have wanted it to be the kindest, least harmful version for individuals and for our country as a whole. We failed miserably at that.

Unless we acknowledge the trauma it caused and make space for it, how do we move on in a healthy way? Why are we still glossing over people's traumatic experiences? It's gaslighting to suggest they should just get over it. These things need time to heal and feeling heard is an important part of that healing.

One of the positive things we can take from times of hardship are the lessons that are learnt from it... In this case I'm pleased that Mrs Danvers will be making a healthy decision not to let herself suffer like that again and if she lived near me, I'd happily break lockdown for and with her, because no one should have to live as bleak an existence as she described.

*harms

I'm discussing a general feeling towards the elderly (and the vulnerable, too). This is outside what you are describing.

I don’t think it is outside what was being described. There isn’t a general negative feeling towards the elderly or vulnerable just for the sake of it. Peoples reasonable feelings of self preservation come up when they think of what another lockdown would be like because they are aware they they or others they care about simply wouldn’t cope with it. That doesn’t mean they don’t care about the elderly or the vulnerable or that they wouldn’t want to protect them if they could, it just means they they are no longer prepared to sacrifice their mental health for the sake of strangers who have other options to protect themselves.

We need to stop taking peoples need for their own survival to mean that they don’t care about others because it’s just not true.

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain and @MichelleScarn

but on the scale of very shit situations : which is worse - someone dying or someone losing social contact for months?

I really can’t express how upsetting it was to have a close relative in a life or death situation, and the knife edge we straddled trying to get her timely treatment. Thanks to the majority of the UK following lockdown rules, she got her treatment and is alive. ALIVE. To me that is the trump card - beyond anything. She gets to live another day.

They’ve had their lives. They shouldn’t expect the rest of the country to come to standstill to prolong it for a few more years. Sadly choices have to be made as there isn’t an unlimited supply of money and resources, and the young should be prioritised over the old. I make no apology for thinking that, and it’s a view shared by my grandma as well.