Sick of narrative that lockdowns were pointless

[Bagzzz]

I think lots of people are forgetting quite how scary the early days were, overwhelmed hospitals and exhausted (and now a lot burnt out) medical staff.

Many mistakes were made and some things that might have have been avoided but we know with the benefit of hindsight.
Scientists if not politicians were doing their best.

Maybe could distinguish later lockdowns but they weren’t done lightly either, knowing it would affect mental health and business.

I accepted the first lockdown as I knew we needed to buy some time to find out what the heck the virus was, how it spread etc.

The subsequent lockdowns were an expensive waste of time.

I resent that we mostly did it to protect the very elderly and now must pay for it for many years to come.

I totally agree, it felt like we were being punished for being northern. Looking back I still can't quite believe it happened. Madness.

It's not remotely a coincidence that Leicester, Greater Manchester and Lancashire were chosen to be the guinea pigs for such a ridiculous system, over a period of several months. It would never have happened in places where people who the Tories consider important live.

Pretty much the whole of the NE was tier 3, so it was almost impossible for us.
I did manage to go to a gig in Leicester though. How Leicester managed to put on a gig I don't know! But it was worth the three hour each way drive as we were so desperate for some live music.

I don’t think you can use the tier system as justification for an anti lockdown stance. Yes certain rules had features or wording - that in retrospect sound ridiculous. But the whole purpose of lockdown was to get control of a virus that was out of control and killing people. And there was no crystal ball.
i had a very close relative who was diagnosed with cancer just before the pandemic. As a family, we could see how important the restrictions were so she could get her bed space to be treated. Cocktail sausages/how to get around the system were just so very far from our thoughts at that time. We just desperately wanted her well.
My feelings were that we were actually fairly lax in the UK compared to other countries. There seemed to be a lot of bumbling and indecision. The tier system was an attempt to at least get things open in some areas. We also lockdowned too late which meant it wasn’t as effective a response as it could have been.

I think the global comparison is vital. To say it was all wrong, well why was virtually every European country doing the same thing?

The first lockdown was reasonable. All the others were not. What I'm not forgetting is depriving children of their education and then blathering some unfounded bullshit about resilience.

"My feelings were that we were actually fairly lax in the UK compared to other countries."

yes, I am so relieved to be here and not there. It was such a terrifying period in that way, but obviously if you had a scotch egg with your vodka, you'd be fine.

i have lost touch with my friend in Spain, last I heard she couldn't get her 3 year old to leave the flat with her anymore.

mum - 84 - said to me "there can't be anyone left, or just a tiny number, who think lockdown was acceptable?" We were talking about it because of two friends she now cba with. Generally we don't talk about it.

I don't know, it would be interesting to do a national survey.

Yes certain rules had features or wording - that in retrospect sound ridiculous.

This 'retrospect' again. Plenty of them were obviously idiotic at the time, which includes the tier system that many of us who were penalised by it understood to be ridiculous as it was happening.

Ultimately, it's those who hold to the view that lockdowns were essential whose argument benefits most from making it clear how ridiculous some of the policies we had were. After all, there was nothing to prevent us from having a lockdown alongside guidance that wasn't stricter than the legislation itself. We could have had a lockdown that emphasised how important it was for people to get outdoors and take plenty of exercise. It's not like functionally excluding primary school aged kids from socialisation whilst other groups have provision made was an inherently necessary part of the process.

I would like to know a few things @EmmaAgain22 your question for sure.

• how many people read the legislation
• how many were happy to follow everything they were told by politicians on TV/ people on social media etc and didn't need to know what was in the legislation
• how many followed guidance and didn't feel a need to understand the legislation or followed it despite knowing it went further
• how many lost loved ones that they now regret not seeing. How many lost loved ones that they didn't see but still feel happy it was for the greater good

-how many feel the lack of support for families, disabled people and single people/people not living with a partner in the first lockdown was proportionate

-How many people care that legislation wasn't in place until days after the police started to police people being out.

-How many people care that police were policing guidance initially or even just their own feelings on what should be law rather than law.
-How many people would have expected the police to have taken time to understand what they were policing or been briefed on it

• whether people were aware that there has always been provision for people at risk of harm, illness or injury

-whether people can list harms that they hadn't considered, including to mental health that may have been mitigated by using this provision.

• of people did use this provision, whether they considered they were breaking the law at the time and whether they still consider they were breaking it

-how many people were aware that there was always provision to meet one other person outdoors, so weren't surprised (but maybe a bit miffed) when Boris Johnson announced it as if this was a major step forward.

Agree, "retrospect" is bizarre, they were all obviously ridiculous at the time.

agree re dates - I was out as normal till 26th March I think? The day the legislation kicked in, not the day Johnson announced the new dictatorship on TV.

"-how many feel the lack of support for families, disabled people and single people/people not living with a partner in the first lockdown was proportionate"

if I'd gone splat over my balcony as I wanted, I'd not be mourned as I'd have no resilience.

Well they were pointless including the first one so....

I never obeyed the rules after about week 2 anyway.

This may be controversial but I think that with the focus purely on preventing death it was deemed ok.to literally ruin lives . Emotionally, financially, educational. Preventing an instant death by causing many long term.deaths in the way of suicide or general.health decline.or refusal of medical treatment, well whats the difference besides being able to prove lockdown " worked" because those people who died months/weeks after not of covid specifically won't be counted as covid deaths

I work in retail. I can honestly say that the physical and cognitive decline in the elderly people I see has been absolutely heartbreaking to witness. They probably didn't have months of good enough health to lose really. Its probably taken years off their lives. But they are old so probably don't matter 🙄

I hadn't realised we were obviously talking about England, not being strange enough to think that all conversations featuring prominent English politicians only refer to England. You do realise that what these folks say is also often applied to other parts of the UK, alongside whatever policies are also decided there by devolved governments? It's quite a task we have, keeping up with it all.

I'm sorry it was law where you were @Reindeersnooker . I know it varied and that Scotland and Wales were more Draconian at times. In England there was never legislation about time spent out of the home, merely the purpose.

I am just basing that on the statistics.

Reindeer would you be willing to say where you were?

I certainly wouldn't, sorry. I have a suspicion there are odd people out there with spreadsheets amassing data... Perhaps that's just paranoia.

But does it make any sense that we're still discussing the lockdowns when you consider how boring it was to be confined at the time, endlessly discussing them. I'm speaking to myself as much as anyone, but weren't they bad enough at the time. They're unlikely to be used again. There's a lot to do to clear up after them in living.

Reindeer understood.

I think it's important to discuss them because they will be used again, and there were so few of us standing up against them.

I dither between wanting reassurance that others will stand up next time and then thinking that I won't be able to stick around if there is another anyway.

I still think of a young person, local, who was advised to shield, did it under duress from parents and then offed themselves at the first opportunity. I cannot imagine what the future must have looked like for them.

Christ, no wonder so many of us are destroyed. Actually I think it's a lot more than feel able to say it.

The nurses and one doctor I know were not happy about lockdown either, with one breaking it daily. They saw colleagues die of Covid too.

some of this is about how realistic people are I guess.

mum had two friends die after being refused entry to hospital. Insanity. Perhaps their lives didn't matter, being old...alongside all the propaganda about protecting the elderly.

.

From my experience working in a primary school, and with 2 primary school aged children - there hasn’t been
a radical change in their behaviour or learning.

I don’t know if it’s potentially damaging to make the assumption that their lives have been ruined - when that’s not the case.

@Reindeersnooker

I agree with you. Needing a hospital bed for someone who would now be dead if they hadn’t had the treatment they needed really brought home the importance of protecting the NHS. And the majority of people abided by restrictions because they could see the importance. It’s only really in social media groups like this that I see the ‘it was all pointless’ argument. The majority didn’t think that. Thank god.

Or stating things like “I didn’t follow the rules after day 2” like it’s a badge of honour”… Well good for you. I’ll remember that knowing that my family member didn’t get pain relief after her operation because they were so understaffed and stretched with Covid patients.

Look at China now if you don't like LD's.

Yes UK was lax compared to many European countries, of the larger comparable Euro countries, it has one of the highest death tolls per capita, 2nd only to Italy, despite our world beating vaccine program!

Tiers? that was just politics.