Strep A and Covid

[wondersun]

Children have been repeatedly infected and exposed to covid for what seems like forever now

Two years ago they had some months remote learning, more than half of which were spring/summer months

After repeat covid infections, with a virus which is known to damage immune systems, we see a FIVE FOLD increase in Strep A bacterial infections and an alarming increase in deaths (6 child deaths in this winter so far, compared with an average of 1/2 in an average winter)

Media full of headlines linking this rise to lockdowns 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

No mention of the immune damaging virus that the government has allowed to let rip in unmitigated schools. The virus which is STILL ripping through schools

No mention of the fact that the biggest increase in strep A is in our largely unvaccinated under 10 population

No attempt made to explain away the obvious links to covid; it’s surreal, covid is just not mentioned

Its still a new virus, even without the increasing body of evidence re damage to people’s immune systems, you’d think the ongoing airborne pandemic would rate a mention…

And there is so much we could be doing to protect children and keep their world’s open but the government is doing nothing, if anything they seem to actually be pro-infection

Its just 🤯🤯🤯 and 😡😡😡

Could you share the articles showing T cells at the level of hiv/ aids please?

@User963 here's a whole thread of links to articles about immune damage from COVID, including at least one that compares to loss of T cells in HIV. twitter.com/RaffyFlynnArt/status/1602033509568225280?t=jcRpyHUv4MjP7Blq99dJkg&s=19

Well that’s a bit bloody terrifying-to see some kind of repeated impact on t cells after each infection.

when the Chinese and Americans decided to dick around with viruses in their crappy lab, who knew this would be the result. No wonder China tried to contain it.

gain of function research should be banned worldwide

Well the drop in T cells comparable to hiv in the paper on that Twitter link seems to be in covid patients who were in ICU. They are treated with loads of steroids (eg dexamethasone) which are well known to kill T cells.
we don’t know about what happens to T cells in other viruses as 1) they’ve been around for years 2) there is less money available to research them (lots of money was available to study covid 19) 3) if you go back far enough in pubmed you might find Them.

I’m not trying to deny any affect of covid on T cells but I think that Twitter and the internet are full of non scientists searching pubmed looking for articles to suit their agenda. You need to review each article carefully and consider 1) have they done appropriate controls (E.g. compare pts in ICU with covid to pts in ICU with influenza or RSv not just healthy donors) 2) ideally you need to examine immune cells from the same donor pre and post covid infection as it could be that people susceptible to covid 19 have different immunological makeup to those who are less susceptible 3) a lot of the articles are in people with long covid who are likely to have a perturbed immune system 4) what is the impact of the journal the paper is published in? This likely reflects the quality of the science.

Found another research paper highlighting the effectiveness of sulforaphane which is found in broccoli as an antimicrobial against strep A

www.researchgate.net/publication/284662308_Studies_on_antioxidant_and_antimicrobial_activities_of_purified_sulforaphane_from_Brassica_oleracea_var_rubra

"Antimicrobial activity:
The results revealed that Std, Extract and purified sulforaphane (SFN) were found to pos-sess potent antibacterial activity against (gram positive–Bacillus cereus,Staphylococcus aureus gram negative -Escherichia coli, Vibrio cholerae,Pseudomonas aeruginosa) and antifungal activity against (Candida albicans
and Aspergillus flavus) species by diffusion method. Purified SFN (100 µg)were found to posses good equivalent antibacterial and antifungal activityagainst all the tested species in comparison with standard SFN and positivec control(Streptomycin 10µg and Nystatin 10µg) Table III."

so get your kids eating broccoli or taking sulforaphane .

@User963 wouldn't you rather apply the precautionary principle rather than potentially end up with a damaged immune system? We're only 3 years in, it takes time to do this research and publish in peer review. That doesn't mean we should act like it's probably not going to have nasty effects on everyone. And now with many people not testing, children included, it's going to make it much harder to analyze health problems and whether x number of COVID infections might have played a part. (I know you can do antibody tests but these are time limited)

Even if it only applies to people in ICU (which is only one of the papers in the thread I shared) 1. we don't know if we might end up in ICU next time we get infected 2. we know there are plenty of other sinister effects of covid even in mild cases, from vascular damage, brain shrinkage, increased risk of stroke and heart attack for a year after, lung damage, increased risk of diabetes, dental problems, damage to lungs of unborn babies, the list goes on. None of these longer term impacts are going to help your immunity.

I follow a number of immunologists on Twitter and they are definitely advocating a precautionary approach, given how terrible the public health messaging around COVID has been (from denying it's airborne to saying children don't get it/don't spread it/they need to get infected for herd immunity - what a joke) I'd rather do my own research than rely on the government to tell us the truth.

I just think that it’s very difficult to avoid covid now (especially children) and what are w going to do if it turns out to have all those negative consequences? I mean I do try to avoid it and I took supplements to boost my immunity when I had it but I find it hard to take my child’s childhood away by preventing mixing. We probably just have to accept this added level of risk in our life.

However it’s also very easy to jump to conclusions. The increase in strep a cases may have nothing to do with covid. Remember that thing called exponential growth with covid. Well it stands to reason that if strep a cases reach a certain level (perhaps originally sparked by a lack of access to healthcare and prompt antibiotics or possibly covid or other viral infections ) we quickly reached the point where this highly contagious bacteria could spread. If in previous years there was the odd case in a school it was probably easier contained but if this year a school had two or three cases it suddenly makes it much more likely your child will catch it. So not all the increases in infections is due to covid but the more strep there is around the more the likelihood of catching it.

@RafaistheKingofClay its socially acceptable in many countries though, colds etc last a week or two , sometimes you get a couple a year so no one can take off that much sick time in most jobs

There are things you can do to minimise you catching covid , or flu or any other airborne virus or bacteria and that's wear a N95/KN95 mask in public properly and I don't mean over your chin like some , but unfortunately the government with its false "herd immunity" and "live with it" health propaganda means that it's now seen as odd to wear a mask even though covid and all these other opportunist infections are around and increasing. Living with it doesn't mean to me catching it repeatedly.

This is from Forbes:
"Not unexpectedly, N95/KN95s were found to reduce the odds of infection compared with people who didn’t wear any mask. To me, the surprising thing is how effective they were, reducing the relative odds by 83%. Cloth masks and surgical masks were found to be less effective."

www.forbes.com/sites/johndrake/2022/02/04/the-real-world-effectiveness-of-face-masks-against-covid-19/?sh=e8b64231d085

Since this Strep A is in the throat and tonsil area what about stepping up oral hygiene and getting your kids to gargle a cetylpyridinium chloride (CPC) mouthwash ( many of the cheaper own brands contain this look at the active ingredients) . It is known that CPC kills Sarscov2 and research states that

"Cetylpyridinium chloride is a potent antibacterial agent that has been shown to be effective against Streptococcus pneumoniae, Streptococcus pyogenes, and Streptococcus viridans."

It doesn't mention strep A but since all are surrounded by a biofilm and the CPC destroys that I don't see why it wouldn't be effective against it. It would certainly reduce the bacteria in the mouth and throat and also reduce the amount of tooth decay . Why not make it part of a regime in schools for all children to do this before classes especially where strep a is prevalent. It wouldn't cost much to give each child a bottle of mouthwash to use supervised in school

But what does a precautionary principle mean? I don’t want my children masked in school. I don’t want my children masked. I don’t want to be masked. I want life to be joyful and fun and sociable. At this stage if that means my life is shortened then so be it.

I think covid is horrific. I wish it had never been unleashed. But it’s here and my children have missed so much of their childhood.

I do watch the numbers and worry though.

i am not sure a mouthwash each day is a great idea. The mouth has a microbiome and I think washing it in antiseptic isn’t a great idea.

I remain sensible and give my kids fresh air, good food, certain supplements. I try to optimise immunity by not being too clean. No anti bac. We have animals. We don’t use hand sanitiser unless there is no soap and water and are travelling

A
simple investment would be to have ventilation in school classrooms. That would reduce the need for masks which some object to. Fresh air really is something we should be fighting for!

@BeethovenNinth you don't mind shortening your life with COVID but how about your children's lives? You'd rather let them get sick too? At this rate of infection (2-3 a year) many will have had COVID 30-40 times by the time they start uni. I don't fancy their chances, to be honest...

On top of masks we need ventilation like @Believeitornot said but also HEPA filtration. Please please put pressure on your schools to invest in HEPA filters in every room, they can be homemade (or in DT classes) for 80 GBP. These are a really important part of the fight against airborne infections www.airbon.co.uk/post/diy-air-purifiers

But the best line of defense remains masking with N95 or KN95. I wear one whenever I'm indoors, it's no hardship. Kids in South East Asia still mask in school, there's no whinging about not seeing smiles etc, they still play like children do. And even if they don't wear them perfectly, it still significantly reduces the overall viral load.

And finally we need the option of vaccination for our children as it helps to prevent the severe outcomes like MIS-C. It's criminal that parents don't even have a choice like for chickenpox vaccine.

As a scientist I would want to see proper funded research. I don't give any weight to Internet opinion. So much utter Bullshit from people
Who I guess would struggle to get a pass in gcse Biology but so certain they know best. I find it really irritating. So many people lecturing me on the most simple of biological facts they have got wrong during covid. My years at uni taught by professors all blown off by someone who failed gcses. Spreading their stupidty.

Show me the article in new scientist or bore off are my feelings.

There’s peer reviewed evidence for masks, HEPA filters, covid having an impact on immune system, covid reactivating glandular fever. And more I assume, haven’t been reading for a while.

@BeethovenNinth

"gain of function research should be banned worldwide"

+++

There was a ban in 2014 in the US under the President Obama administration due to a number of incidents and fears that a modified virus with an enhanced transmission might accidentally escape from a lab.

This policy was reversed in 2017 under the Trump administration, although new US research in gain of function was through funding in research in labs in other countries in particular the Wuhan Lab rather than in the US. Peter Daszak was a leading proponent arguing for gain of function research to start again.

www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(18)30006-9/fulltext