Hospitals stopping covid testing for new asymptomatic patients admitted

[mrshoho]

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-tests-hospital-nhs-trust-b2052283.html?gaa_at=la&gaa_n=AYc4ystdULRw3OF_g00gQzL_Oa0TVt82pJlYy6qC8p46gTkJQyLtNcTNVO3EHVH-r1M%3D&gaa_ts=62559b78&utm_source=newsshowcase&utm_medium=discover&utm_campaign=CCwqFggwKg4IACoGCAowzdp7ML-3CTDa0EYwx8RP&utm_content=bullets&gaa_sig=aUjn-abXUHglW5Y72CQVoZCqFNP5aU9Y7OllhVKn9GvbGWTTgwvsT5iaFXBA4n9cp4ydtrmXRZwGdl-8jDxMbg%3D%3D

At least 2 trusts have taken this decision as they can no longer cope with segregating covid/non covid wards. I get what they're saying that it's the lesser of two evils but the risks to patients is worrying.

I guess they think this is the least risky option

I feel for the medical professionals. They can see that people with life threatening illness need treating but they also see that they could be potentially putting them at risk of harms from contracting covid. Not a good position at all.

Yes. I heard a story of a man admitted with an infection non COVID and is the only person on ward without COVID. Non segregation worried me.

It's desperate. As the senior hospital worker says, the government appear to have washed their hands of covid. The medical staff are the ones at the front line and have been put in a terrible position.

How is abandoning infection control in a hospital during a pandemic going to help anything? I'd be furious if a loved one was placed on a ward with known covid positive people, they got ill and their recovery was prolonged and complicated because of it. Hopefully it's just a temporary/emergency measure while prevelance is so high. Seems irresponsible otherwise.

There is a shortage of beds. Since restrictions started lifting the issue has become so much more difficult. We have patients waiting for hours in A&E for a bed but can’t use them all because the one the patient needs is in a covid area. It’s important to keep people segregated if they have covid but at the same time there’s no movement in A&E resulting in ambulance backlogs and long waits. Realistically they are in a no win situation.

they are only stopping asymptomatic/routine testing , testing with symptoms or pre-procedures etc will still happen. It's likely that asymptomatic people found to be positive by chance are far less likely of a risk so its a calculated gamble to create some movement/space in the system.

Hopefully it will be more nuanced than the article suggests. I imagine the risk is quite different on a day ward of young, otherwise healthy people having bunion surgery vs an elderly care, cancer or transplant ward?

Our trust is still really strict with everything and still on very limited visiting. I can’t see them doing that just yet we still have a few covid wards atm.

But we are extremely busy throughout the hospital and a&e is rammed daily so currently so can see why things like this will end up the norm.

Worrying for people like my dad who is very at risk from covid and he could easily catch it in hospital in situations like this.

Our trust was admitting anyone testing positive for covid on arrival to covid wards. Fine. I understand the need to limit the spread amongst already ill people. This meant my FIL, who had suffered a second stroke in a short space of time, missed out on vital stroke care. He caught covid from his first stay, on the stroke ward as they had an outbreak shortly before his discharge.

I can understand the logic as in our case, locating him on covid ward and the delays this caused in his stroke care has had a negative impact for his recovery.

I have hosp appointment today. DD day 5 of covid. I phoned hosp clinic to check their latest rules and they said I can't go to appointment. Kind of understand - but I have had several hosp app throughout the pandemic and since LFTs were available the hosp has NEVER requested that patients attending put patient app do an LFT test first. Just given a sheet of qu to answer re symptoms etc, There is part of me which wishes I just didn't say anything as I have LFT neg , daughter has fully isolated (her choice ) and now 6 weeks before I can have the medical intervention which should have today. Could be worse but I am meant to be having this treatment every 6 weeks, so it will be 12 wk gap.
I know this is different to pre IN-PT testing. But just wanted to make point that throughout pandemic 1000's have been attending out-patients with no covid testing.

I really don't see how they can deliver things like safe cancer care if they don't know and are not actively the risks of in-hospital transmission to highly vulnerable patients

They can't Nether. But they are gambling that the potential harms from increasing hospital acquired covid cases will be less than not treating people. I'm not blaming the hospitals as they are having to do this knowing that it is far from ideal.

Are they being upfront about it with non emergency patients?

I haven't understood why some some hospitals aren't Green & others Red. It makes no sense to me.

At this point, continuing to delay routine treatments is as harmful, if not more harmful than dropping covid testing. Hospitals cannot keep prioritising covid as the most important consideration when we have waiting lists as long as we do. They need to do everything possible to get as many people seen as they can, this is why we all had the vaccines.

Our trust is still extremely strict. We have wards with barely any patients because they have positive cases. Bed management meetings are stressful because whole wards are shut so we can’t move people or take new admissions.
Staffing is also affected because the staff that are able to work are not able to move between wards.

I can’t see the whole article but I’m assuming they mean they are starting to treat Covid like flu. For example, If someone comes into A&E with symptoms of Covid, they will isolate, test, then go to red ward if confirmed positive. If someone comes in with symptoms of bowel obstruction they won’t test and send them to a surgical ward.
At the moment we have so many bed shortages because we’re testing everyone, if someone pops up as positive (no matter how asymptomatic) we send them to red isolation and the whole rest of the bay need to be isolated. Any empty beds in that bay then can’t be filled until all those patients have been discharged, or get the all clear after at least a week.
We were tying ourselves up in knots yesterday trying to find beds for people stuck in A&E.

Im in hospital atm and have been tested 3 times already.there are covid free wards. Only allowed one named visitor who has to make appointment as only one visitor per ward allowed at a time

If they are in anything like the situation we are in, then they are probably not admitting any non emergency patients anyway, lovespringdaffs.

This does seem a bit short sighted and I can’t see the logic of how this closes fewer beds. You might have fewer hot wards, but surely you end up with more wards closed to new admissions due to infection control measures to prevent covid spreading on wards in the medium term. Just because a patient is asymptomatic doesn’t mean that they will stay that way. Surely all you are doing in that case is delaying a test by 24-48hrs while you allow positive patients to spread covid to vulnerable patients and hospital staff.

The trust where I work it's horrendous. We had a parent come in positive for Covid on a bone marrow transplant unit who met with 5 parents in the parent room and didn't tell anyone they were positive until 3 hours after they arrived on the ward.

The chaos was unbelievable. Had to send those 5 patients to different hospitals close the unit, deep clean it and cancel treatment for 8 patients until it was completed..

If this seems overkill remember these children have no immune system and a cold could kill them. Let alone Covid

@FairyCakeWings

At this point, continuing to delay routine treatments is as harmful, if not more harmful than dropping covid testing. Hospitals cannot keep prioritising covid as the most important consideration when we have waiting lists as long as we do. They need to do everything possible to get as many people seen as they can, this is why we all had the vaccines.

100% agree

I'm sorry you can't read the whole article. I can try and copy and paste but there are adverts all over the page.

Do you think these trusts are being used as test cases to see what happens when infection control measures are changed? It does say in the article though that other trusts will follow.

The news is filled with the shambolic behaviour of government but hardly anything about the current state of our hospitals.

@FairyCakeWings

At this point, continuing to delay routine treatments is as harmful, if not more harmful than dropping covid testing. Hospitals cannot keep prioritising covid as the most important consideration when we have waiting lists as long as we do. They need to do everything possible to get as many people seen as they can, this is why we all had the vaccines.

Fine. But as part of informed consent it’s only fair to point out that you are at increased risk of dying from your routine surgery if you catch covid. Or that you are more likely to die of whatever routine condition you were admitted for if you catch covid in hospital.

Hospitals haven’t been prioritising covid. They are admitted on the basis of immediate need. And however inconvenient that is for people that move on and want to ‘live with covid’ the circulating levels in the community at the mean that covid is providing a huge burden in that respect. Abandoning infection control procedures isn’t moving on, it’s admitting that the healthcare system has collapsed and can’t cope with trying to limit hospital acquired infection.

If someone comes in with symptoms of bowel obstruction they won’t test and send them to a surgical ward.

They aren’t abandoning asymptomatic testing for people requiring procedures. That is absolutely essential.

Fine. But as part of informed consent it’s only fair to point out that you are at increased risk of dying from your routine surgery if you catch covid.

Don’t they have to do that anyway with other hospital acquired infections like MRSA and Cdif?

There has always been a risk associated with going into hospital to be surrounded by other sick people.

Abandoning infection control procedures isn’t moving on, it’s admitting that the healthcare system has collapsed and can’t cope with trying to limit hospital acquired infection.

Yes this is how I'm reading it.