Are you getting your primary age child vaccinated?

[TunnelOfGoats]

Just had a text from our GP asking us to book a vaccine for our DS 8yo. I've had 3 vaccines and was happy to do so, but I'm hesitating about booking one for my DS. Trying to find out other people's opinions and whether you will be getting your DC vaccinated? Thanks

@Oaktree55

PS as for “nonsense” it’s not nonsense. This site is amazing how people demand they justify their points 🤣. Everyone is entitled to post what they like, readers can then do their own follow up reading on points raised if they wish to. Many points are covered by experts on line with published credentials. Anyone who believes what anyone posts here anonymously is rather silly. Vaccinating children against Covid is a very grey area.

PS as for “nonsense” it’s not nonsense. This site is amazing how people demand they justify their points 🤣

so basically - I don't really understand what "original antigenic sin" is and therefore cannot explain why it would be a reason not to vaccinate children.

which experts with published credentials have used this as a reason not to offer vaccination to children?

I think you'll find when it comes to health @Oaktree55, if you post scaremoingering nonsense, people will ask you for a source for it.

I'm not in the UK. It's been the norm here to vax all over 5s since before Xmas.
Most parents have done this

@riveted1 as I said anyone who puts any weight in either of our posts is rather silly. It’s all there to be read on line there’s enough public comment by experts on the risk benefits of Covid vaccines for children. In fact even public comment from the JCVI stating it’s grey and far from clear cut.

Your bitchy snide comments are very apt for this website.

[quote Oaktree55]@riveted1 as I said anyone who puts any weight in either of our posts is rather silly. It’s all there to be read on line there’s enough public comment by experts on the risk benefits of Covid vaccines for children. In fact even public comment from the JCVI stating it’s grey and far from clear cut.

Your bitchy snide comments are very apt for this website.[/quote]
I don't understand your posts @Oaktree55

You're claiming "original antigenic sin" - which is the (fake) claim that vaccines make people sicker and more likely to die when exposed to a pathogen.

This isn't true. It therefore doesn't help anyone make an informed decision and causes a lot of uncessary fear around vaccination and people are allowed to ask you for some kind of evidence backing it up.

In fact even public comment from the JCVI stating it’s grey and far from clear cut.

Yup - and I've said this in previous posts. Their main reason for this is the cost of roll out and whether this is justified on a population level (i.e., could costs/resources be better spent elsewhere) - rather than because it is not worthwhile for the individual or because of safety concerns.

What they have not said, is that people should be worried about "original antigenic sin" @Oaktree55

@riveted1 No OAS is not the claim vaccines make people sicker and more likely to die at all. OAS is an imprinting from first exposure to a pathogen/vaccine. It’s why we are seeing less response with each boost to elderly people eg Israel experience. You are recalling an immune response to a vaccine which is now “out of date” as based on Wuhan virus.

I’m leaving it here but don’t imply I’m suggesting vaccines don’t work or make people sicker. That’s not what OAS is nor what I implied.

[quote Oaktree55]@riveted1 No OAS is not the claim vaccines make people sicker and more likely to die at all. OAS is an imprinting from first exposure to a pathogen/vaccine. It’s why we are seeing less response with each boost to elderly people eg Israel experience. You are recalling an immune response to a vaccine which is now “out of date” as based on Wuhan virus.

I’m leaving it here but don’t imply I’m suggesting vaccines don’t work or make people sicker. That’s not what OAS is nor what I implied.[/quote]
No @Oaktree55, this is incorrect.

The reason the vaccines are less effective for newer variants is because the immune response was produced in response to antigens transribed from genetic material from the original SARS-COV-2 variant identified in Wuhan. As the newer variants get increasingly different due to accumulation of mutations, this immune response becomes less effective.

This is nothing to do with "imprinting" or "original antigenic sin"

Yes.

There's plenty of evidence that Covid in young children can be very serious.

For example, www.forbes.com/sites/victoriaforster/2022/03/16/covid-19-can-cause-severe-croup-in-young-children-says-new-study/, or the many studies linked to by Dr. Elisa Perego in mobile.twitter.com/elisaperego78/status/1439966792760365064

[quote beattieedny]@frazzledali You're welcome.[/quote]
wow. What a horrible little person you must be.

@HazeyjaneIII I'm not in the UK, in my country all children over 5 have been able to get vaccinated since first of Jan. I guess they have a different rule here though about the second jab if they've had covid, I thought she would just have to wait a few weeks but they said she didn't need it at all.

Yes, our 5 year old had first jab as they’re clinically vulnerable and second jab soon.

The evidence for long covid in 3-13% regardless of whether asymptomatic or not is what swayed me. Didn’t fancy him having risk of heart/liver scarring, increased dementia risk etc etc. There are longitudinal studies ongoing with results due circa 2026 that will give more info on long term impact. I’m erring on side of caution as preliminary data doesn’t look great.

If anyone wants to consider the long term evolutionary prospects of the virus (ie the various scenarios that may play out and relative risk to children and us all in the remaining phase of pandemic) this is a sage paper that came out last summer

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1007566/S1335_Long_term_evolution_of_SARS-CoV-2.pdf

With a more recent and concise update here
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1054323/S1513_Viral_Evolution_Scenarios.pdf

I hope this helps. Do what your comfortable with for your family. x

No. My 5 yo twins were completely asymptomatic and i feel I have to have a better reason to jab them e. g measles, whooping cough etc

No and not even for my immune-suppressed 8y/o.

Because her doctors haven’t even mentioned it (she goes for check ups every 12 weeks) and the study she’s in at Southampton University says she’s not at higher risk than any other ‘normal’ child despite her transplant.

She had Covid a while back and was no more poorly than with any other cold-type virus. ECG and blood checks are all normal post Covid.

She has the flu vaccine every winter as it’s advised by her doctors.

Getting our 6 year old vaccinated as soon as we are able to. To be honest, don't understand why it's being delayed so much. Primary schools are full of covid cases. Some children are getting it second time after 3 weeks. Two children, I know, have long covid.

My nine year old was vaccinated on Saturday (she was VERY excited to get it done!) In cannot understand why anybody would not take up the opportunity. My wife, who is a former health evidence manager for a university health board, and a Cochrane reviewer, supports this decision wholeheartedly.

I won’t be vaccinating either of my children. They are 8 and 5, they’ve both had Covid and they were completely well and asymptomatic.

If the vaccine was known to seriously reduce transmission then I probably would have my children done, but seeing as transmission still occurs even when vaccinated there seems little point to it.

@PaddlingLikeADuck "They are 8 and 5, they’ve both had Covid and they were completely well and asymptomatic."

That's about as smart as saying "I did one trip to the shops and didn't realise they didn't have seat belts on. I didn't have an accident, so I'm not going to bother making them use seat belts in the future."

@PaddlingLikeADuck "They are 8 and 5, they’ve both had Covid and they were completely well and asymptomatic."

That's about as smart as saying "I did one trip to the shops and didn't realise they didn't have seat belts on. I didn't have an accident, so I'm not going to bother making them use seat belts in the future."

Well not really seeing as not wearing a seatbelt in a car could end up with my children being seriously injured or being killed if we were in a crash.

Getting Covid again hardly presents the same risk to them does it.

@PaddlingLikeADuck and anyone else interested.

Completely correct that vaccinated people can transmit covid, however they are significantly less likely to be infected in the first place, so in this way transmission is reduced.
www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o298

Long term effects of covid are as yet not fully elucidated but studies have shown a significant percentage circa 10% of those infected (whether asymptomatic or not) do have long term health complications i.e. 2% reduction of grey matter, increased dementia risk, scarring of the lungs, heart and liver. This often can’t be seen without specialised testing i.e. MRI/ Xenon gas scans etc. which will not be carried out unless patient presents with severe symptoms. It is likely young kids will recover well given time, however the extent of this isn’t yet quantified.

Studies funded by UK and US governments amongst others are only just underway and results will not be publicised and appear in the media until 2026.
www.gov.uk/government/news/185-million-to-tackle-long-covid-through-research
www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/long-term-study-children-covid-19-begins

Health benefits for vaccination for the majority of children according to the bmj are small when considering covid alone. However, when factoring in disruption to education and risk of lockdown this is what swayed JCVI to recommending vaccination for kids.

Indirect negative effects of covid/lockdowns are: 17% fall in diagnosis childhood cancers with survival outcomes reduced, eating disorders doubled, lost education leading to reduced attainment/reduced earning capacity/reduced quality of life and life expectancy; detrimental mental health outcomes; increased autism referrals; reduced exposure to everyday pathogens through lockdowns leading to reduced immune functionality which will lead to higher negative outcomes/fatalities and ill health long term.

A final factor to consider is the long term evolution of the virus, as we are still mid pandemic. The current variant is pretty mild in terms of pathology, but global vaccination rates are still suboptimal giving scope for antigenic shift and drift. With vulnerable elderly and adults vaccinated this pushes evolution towards those not vaccinated. You can see my links in previous post above re. evolution and scenarios which may lie ahead. Admittedly it is looking more positive than 6 months ago but we won’t know until winter really which way it’s going to go.

Personally I got my child vaccinated, because he, DH and myself are vulnerable. I want him to be able to go to school without disruption. Data showing long term negative outcomes of covid is stronger than data showing negative outcomes of vaccination. And I want some protection for him so he isn’t a rabbit caught in headlights should a crappy variant emerge.

Anyone considering vaccination should weigh up the above, stick to reading science and not newspapers for advice and not feel bullied either way. I hope this helps x

No I'm not.

The preventing further disruption to education argument just doesn’t add up to me. I work in a school which had very high uptake of the vaccine due to the fact most students needed to travel internationally and many of them were offered two doses earlier in their home countries earlier than they’d have got here. Many of them then got third doses here when it was offered. We’re nevertheless in the middle of a huge wave of covid in the school in which one boarding house has been closed due to almost everyone including staff getting it. It’s great that that vaccines are reducing deaths but as every vaccinated person I know has caught it this year I cannot believe they are reducing transmission. My own children have been exposed to covid repeatedly and they’ve been completely fine so no I won’t be vaccinating them.

My kids will be being vaxxed despite just having covid.
1 covid causes my dc nosebleeds.
2the 9yo has infected me too despite my 3 jabs. And either her dad or ive passed it on. We are both quite ill very phlegmy which isnt great with asthma.
3 Basically dc was in school with it last fri and no proper symptoms.

Do we know when the vaxs will be available this wait is ridiculous?

I agree though that less likely to be infected once vaccinated is clearly rubbish at this point (not earlier)
Almost Everyone i know has now had it and they were all vaccinated 3 times.
But 1 adult seems to have managed to avoid it (husband and son got it but the adult had had it before though.)
2 adults havent caught yet despite child having it. But as that is very recent. Quite surprised my kid spread it as dc had so few symptoms

@yourestandingonmyneck

Yes. The long term effects of covid are an unknown. More so than the vaccine.

I find it a strange response when people say "I am triple vaxed myself but absolutely will not vaxx my children".

I see it the opposite way. I can't imagine protecting myself but not allowing them the same level of protection when offered.

I do understand the divide though. It's about weighing up risk and everybody has to do what is right for them.

Ultimately, for me, the deciding factor was that long covid provides a lot more uncertainty than the vaccine. Also, whilst the risk of acute illness with covid in young healthy kids is low, it is higher than risks associated with the vaccine.

Scientifically, there is as much data for covid as there is the vaccine and as I have read, less data for the vaccine. It comes down as personal preference, if you feel comfortable vaccinating your children that is perfectly acceptable but don’t claim there to be favourable data towards the vaccine, because that is incorrect.

We were told it was 8 weeks from having COVID they could be vaccinated. Mine just had her first dose 9 weeks after