Undecided about second dose (for teens)

[aibusux2u]

My two DDs are due their second dose of Pfizer next week, and I am in two minds. It's ultimately their decision, of course, but they will look to me for guidance.

I wasn't sure about getting them jabbed in the first place, but when Omicron came along with all its unknowns on how kids would be affected and our fears of infecting grandparents, we made the decision together to go ahead.

Reasons against getting second dose:

• The second dose carries the most risk of myocarditis etc
• The threat of Omicron is not as great as it seemed
• Grandparents are now triple jabbed and about to get another booster

Reasons for:

• It might help protect against a worse variant in future
• It might make travel difficult if they have not had both doses.

Does anyone have any words of wisdom? Thank you.

I’m worried about my ds having a second dose but I think, on balance it makes more sense to have it now.

Omicron was the milder virus but the previous two were increasingly worse than each other. So we may end up with a worse variant and I don’t want my children to be unprotected as a result. Us adults will be in a better position as we’ve been jabbed.

@Blubells

So why do we vaccinate babies then?

Mainly to protect them, the babies.

But if there is a low uptake of that vaccine, it reduces the protection any baby has. That’s the whole point! Vaccination programmes only work if the majority of people have them.

@Blubells

So why do we vaccinate babies then?

Mainly to protect them, the babies.

No, we vaccinate babies and children against many infectious diseases that they aren't seriously at risk of.

This is how vaccination programmes work. It's really detrimental for children to grow up in societies where infectious diseases are rife, even if they themselves aren't directly at a huge risk of the disease itself. It's the impact of these diseases on society/infrastructure/healthcare, that causes indirect harm.

It's sad we're back to a scenario where people can't understand the importance of vaccine programmes because they have been so wildly successful.

My daughter felt the same about teen son even having the first jab. Then we started booking trips to Spain and he would have had to stay at home! I'm taking him for his 2nd one on Saturday

My teens haven't had the vaccination and I don't regret my choice. If they decide they want it, that's fine. There's no right or wrong choice.

Oh, and we just came back from a week abroad, so it didn't stop us travelling either.

My dd3 is too young for the vaccine (10) but the rest of us are vaccinated. Dd3 was the most unwell at the time and 8 weeks later she’s now been diagnosed with asthma having never had symptoms previously. I believe in the vaccine. The most helpful thing for me was knowing my colleagues’ dc have all been vaccinated. Colleagues are trained medical doctors.

@Beammeupscotty1

OK then..let's risk serious heart problems just so we can fly to Spain

@Beammeupscotty1

The risk of cardiac complication, including more severe presentation, is higher with coronavirus infection than it is with vaccination. And that's just one aspect of side effects that coronavirus infection can cause.

For kids, the chance of either is tiny, but the risk is smaller with vaccination. By no means have your children vaccination if you don't think it's justified, but it's best to be making an informed choice.

@Beammeupscotty1

OK then..let's risk serious heart problems just so we can fly to Spain

The risks of serious heart problems is far greater from Covid illness than the Covid Vaccine. It's not just about desire to travel, it's about protecting health both on a population basis and individual basis. A "mild" dose of Covid just means you haven't had to be hospitalised but you could be left with some long term problems. For families susceptible to developing chronic illnesses like diabetes or asthma to mention just a couple, it can mean developing them at a much younger age when they might not otherwise have appeared for 20, 30, 40, 50 or 60 years. This has life-long consequences for the individuals and places and additional burden of care on an already stretched health-care system.

@leafygreens, How patronising. What makes you think you are more informed than anyone else? Better to say it's 'covid' causing heart problems than the vaccines. Wake up.

[quote Beammeupscotty1]@leafygreens, How patronising. What makes you think you are more informed than anyone else? Better to say it's 'covid' causing heart problems than the vaccines. Wake up.[/quote]
What makes you think you are more informed than anyone else?

I'm not - however there's good quality evidence backing up my post hence why I said it.

I fear it's falling on deaf ears to anyone repeating "wake up" though

Oh the irony..😄

@Beammeupscotty1

Oh the irony..😄

What's ironic @Beammeupscotty1?

I've read original research that assesses the risk of cardiac complications in relation to infection and vaccination, many of which are pretty good at transparency and providing code/scripts to demonstrate how analyses were conducted.

From this body of evidence, it is clear that the risks of cardiac complications are tiny for children, but that the risk is smaller for vaccination.

Not a reason for someone to go ahead with vaccination for this age group, it's still a very marginal benefit, but I think it's silly to go around accusing people of needing to wake up when there's good quality evidence about this.

OK great, post a link to this research as honestly that's not what I'm seeing at all

The risk of cardiac complication, including more severe presentation, is higher with coronavirus infection than it is with vaccination

And if the vaccine actually stopped you contracting Covid, it would be the clear winning choice.

However, it doesn't. So as far as I can see, vaccinating a teen just increases their risk - they have the risks of cardiac issues from both the vaccine AND covid (if they get it, which they well might anyway).

Personally I'd prefer my dc 'just' had the risks from Covid so won't be vaccinating them.

@Beammeupscotty1

OK great, post a link to this research as honestly that's not what I'm seeing at all

as honestly that's not what I'm seeing at all

From what experience? You're a clinician, a researcher?

OK great, post a link to this research

For example - this large study (n~ 3 million) based in the UK.

Summary of results:

There was an increase in the risk of myocarditis
within a week of receiving the first dose of both adenovirus and
mRNA vaccines, and a higher increased risk after the second dose
of both mRNA vaccines. In contrast, we found no evidence of an
increase in the risk of pericarditis or cardiac arrhythmias following vaccination, except in the 1–28days following a second dose
of the mRNA-1273 vaccine. Second, in the same population, there
was a greater risk of myocarditis, pericarditis and cardiac arrhythmia following SARS-CoV-2 infection. Third, the increased risk of
myocarditis after vaccination was higher in persons aged under 40
years. We estimated extra myocarditis events to be between 1 and
10 per million persons in the month following vaccination, which
was substantially lower than the 40 extra events per million persons
observed following SARS-CoV-2 infection

www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0

www.phc.ox.ac.uk/news/covid-19-infection-more-likely-than-vaccines-to-cause-rare-cardiovascular-complications

@FinnulaFloss

I agree. You’re just adding an extra risk into the equation. My 12 year old has had covid twice now (a sniffle both times) so vaccinating seems utterly pointless for him when he could indeed get it again after vaccination.

Just seem so unnecessary.

If you are worried about heart complications, get the vaccine. More likely after COVID than after the vaccine.

If you are worried about heart complications, get the vaccine. More likely after COVID than after the vaccine.

But that assumes that the vaccine actually prevents Covid...!

@Blubells the vaccine prevents serious illness and impacts.

DD 17 had both her jabs without issue...booster in a fortnight.

She's in 6th Form with a part time job and very active social life...friends and colleagues have had Covid in the last few months and touch wood so far she's not caught it.

It's not a magic bullet of course but certainly worth having I think

I know this is very rare but just wanted to state what happened to my dd(13) after getting her first vaccination in October. It started off with breathing difficulties, weakness in legs and heart palpitations after about 5 days. Soon she couldn’t even stand up from bed without my helping her.
Now nearly 5 months later, she still finds it difficult to walk, has pins and needles in legs and arms, headaches about twice a day, exhaustion from walking a little bit, backaches. She sleeps a lot and has gone to school for a few mornings in January after which she became worse again after a hamstring injury. The drs say it’s due to an overactive immune system and there are others like this and she should recover in a few months. She was also found to have very low vitamin D. She’s due to have an MRI and physiotherapy.

Both my teens and all their friends have had two doses, we’re in NZ and it’s the norm here. None of them have had any issues that I’m aware of.

I think the cost/benefit is trickier to assess now with Omicron. DS 13 has had both doses back in October then January. The situation was different in November. The vaccines seemed more effective with regards to the spread of Covid with Delta. So this was actually for the greater good. I didn’t think he’d have a problem with Covid but wanted to help protect grandparents, teachers etc. He hasn’t had Covid as far as I’m aware, despite constantly being a close contact in school. We’ve all had it including omicron and he didn’t get it. Either he had it asymptotically (we tested him lots for school), he’s naturally immune or the vaccines worked well. But their main aim is to stop severe disease which in children is rare.

Now I have DS11 so will need to have a think. He’s had Delta and was asymptomatic. We all had omicron. He didn’t get that. I don’t think vaccinating him will help with the spread of Covid therefore it’s down to his individual need. And I don’t really see the need. If it did hugely impact the spread I would vaccinate. If he hadn’t had Covid I would also vaccinate. If a new variant pops up then I’ll reconsider.

It’s very individual and nuanced. But what the vaccines do very well is prevent Covid being a series disease. For my son I don’t think that’s a risk at all. Others may think it is.