Government messaging

[OliveTree75]

Hello,
Been thinking recently how in years to come the Covid pandemic will most likely be studied in education all over the world.
What do you think the views on the government messaging will be in the future?
Looking back now, I find some of them hard to look at. We have been subjected to so much fear and whilst I agree we had to take action, I can’t help but wonder if some of these posters were a step too far.

@Flaxmeadow

So let's ban upsetting signs and reminders of health and anti crime campaigns. Cigarette packets, doctors waiting rooms, dentist pictures of rotting teeth, crime warning posters (the grooming gangs ones anyone?), hazard and zig zag danger signs near pylons are desteoying lives, terrorist warnings on public transport, drink drive ads. Everything. Any traumatising image to be removed and replaced with images of rainbows, chocolate rivers, unicorns, sparkly glitter and fluffy kittens

We don’t need it anymore for Covid as the health system is no longer at threat of being overwhelmed.

Even though the main message was around ‘staying safe’ it wasn’t really about that but just to put enough fear in place so we stayed apart:

When that crisis passes it all goes.

Obviously some people feel at higher risk and will feel angry or want it to stay so they still feel safer but the reality is the vast majority were not at high risk from the virus.

@ITSupport

I think in 10’years time we’ll realise the death toll from covid was not actually as bad as it was

And we’ll look at something that I the 70s/80s would have been a very bad couple
Of years of flu to a complete overreaction driven by social and 24/7 media

There are already studies coming out that show lockdowns did not actually achieve anything re the virus.

Other than give the health anxious a feeling of SOMETHING was being done.

I honestly think if thatcher had been in charge and this had hit in the 80s we’d never have locked down and we’d not have had the mass hysteria (other than the militant left saying they were trying to kill them off)

Well, no, but we couldn't have locked down in the 80s. Working from home, for most, wouldn't have been possible without the Internet.

I do agree Thatcher would have dealt with it better though. Well, I think anybody would have dealt with it better than Boris, but I think Thatcher would have been very efficient, knowledgeable and decisive.

As regards the posters, yes, they are shocking, and yes they are upsetting. Were they necessary though? I don't know, but I'm probably erring on the side of yes, they were.

@Flaxmeadow

So let's ban upsetting signs and reminders of health and anti crime campaigns. Cigarette packets, doctors waiting rooms, dentist pictures of rotting teeth, crime warning posters (the grooming gangs ones anyone?), hazard and zig zag danger signs near pylons are desteoying lives, terrorist warnings on public transport, drink drive ads. Everything. Any traumatising image to be removed and replaced with images of rainbows, chocolate rivers, unicorns, sparkly glitter and fluffy kittens

The fact that you're comparing things we do genuinely need to fully eradicate like drink driving with messaging about going on trains and talking to other human beings outside aptly illustrates the problem.

So let's ban upsetting signs and reminders of health and anti crime campaigns. Cigarette packets, doctors waiting rooms, dentist pictures of rotting teeth, crime warning posters (the grooming gangs ones anyone?), hazard and zig zag danger signs near pylons are desteoying lives, terrorist warnings on public transport, drink drive ads. Everything. Any traumatising image to be removed and replaced with images of rainbows, chocolate rivers, unicorns, sparkly glitter and fluffy kittens.

Oh and any reminder at all of horrid mean covid. No more wearing masks, images of evil needles, images of doctors and nurses and hospitals, arrows in the floor in shops and directional signs. Stop and 'this way' signs will cause huge psychological problems in the future.

We need to get back to normal now, because this annoying covid thing is getting rediculus. Or something like that

@Flaxmeadow

So let's ban upsetting signs and reminders of health and anti crime campaigns. Cigarette packets, doctors waiting rooms, dentist pictures of rotting teeth, crime warning posters (the grooming gangs ones anyone?), hazard and zig zag danger signs near pylons are desteoying lives, terrorist warnings on public transport, drink drive ads. Everything. Any traumatising image to be removed and replaced with images of rainbows, chocolate rivers, unicorns, sparkly glitter and fluffy kittens.

Oh and any reminder at all of horrid mean covid. No more wearing masks, images of evil needles, images of doctors and nurses and hospitals, arrows in the floor in shops and directional signs. Stop and 'this way' signs will cause huge psychological problems in the future.

We need to get back to normal now, because this annoying covid thing is getting rediculus. Or something like that

I think you’re losing track when going into hyperbole

But yes the ‘something like that’ is when healthcare crisis has passed.

The entire response was built around that

So let's ban upsetting signs and reminders of health and anti crime campaigns. Cigarette packets, doctors waiting rooms, dentist pictures of rotting teeth, crime warning posters (the grooming gangs ones anyone?)

None of those are even remotely comparable. The government tried to make people responsible for a virus doing what viruses have done for millennia. There was nothing fair or reasonable about that. Alerting people to the personal dangers of smoking is nothing like that.

@Flaxmeadow

So let's ban upsetting signs and reminders of health and anti crime campaigns. Cigarette packets, doctors waiting rooms, dentist pictures of rotting teeth, crime warning posters (the grooming gangs ones anyone?), hazard and zig zag danger signs near pylons are desteoying lives, terrorist warnings on public transport, drink drive ads. Everything. Any traumatising image to be removed and replaced with images of rainbows, chocolate rivers, unicorns, sparkly glitter and fluffy kittens.

Oh and any reminder at all of horrid mean covid. No more wearing masks, images of evil needles, images of doctors and nurses and hospitals, arrows in the floor in shops and directional signs. Stop and 'this way' signs will cause huge psychological problems in the future.

We need to get back to normal now, because this annoying covid thing is getting rediculus. Or something like that

Yes, this is definitely what people are saying when we point out that it's bad public health messaging when you try to people into compliance without thinking about the negative impacts of stigma, shame and what this might do to people's willingness to engage in the future. Obviously the only options are shaming essential workers who need to use public transport to get to their jobs or use images of unicorns.

But yes the ‘something like that’ is when healthcare crisis has passed

Ah so the health crisis has passed. So thousands did not die in January, including 17 children. The virus has completely stopped mutating, The Govt is not listing a recombinant Omicron/Delta mutation as under investigation, Denmark is not showing rising numbers again. Reinfection is not happening at an alarming rate, the virus is not vascular and attacking every part of our body and brain, long covid isn't real and the 'end" in endemic means the end of the virus. Got ya!

@Flaxmeadow

But yes the ‘something like that’ is when healthcare crisis has passed

Ah so the health crisis has passed. So thousands did not die in January, including 17 children. The virus has completely stopped mutating, The Govt is not listing a recombinant Omicron/Delta mutation as under investigation, Denmark is not showing rising numbers again. Reinfection is not happening at an alarming rate, the virus is not vascular and attacking every part of our body and brain, long covid isn't real and the 'end" in endemic means the end of the virus. Got ya!

Yes the peak has passed

Have you heard of countries talking about the omicron peak? Not just U.K.

Look at the graphs showing rapidly decreasing cases in many countries including ours.

Ironically the campaign that you want to keep has most impacted you to the point of continued fear. Maybe when all reporting stops you’ll stop feeling so heightened and at risk. I assume you’ve been triple vaccinated.

arrows in the floor in shops and directional signs. Stop and 'this way' signs will cause huge psychological problems in the future.

So much of this was unnecessary and to be seen to be doing something. Humans are very good at not bumping into each other in general and not forgetting we're talking about an airborn virus that doesn't know there's a bit of tape separating two people!

I once wasn't allowed to sit on the only outdoor bench that happened to be in tthe sun at a café, because... "obviously due to covid".... Etc
Apparently it was in case a queue developed. I offered to move if there was anyone waiting but that could not be allowed.
Instead, I moved to indoors as it was too chilly in the shade, where I was less than a metre from the next table.
Totally pointless....
Ok this wasn't traumatising but was part of the constant drip drip drip of covid policy that was incapable of common sense and flexibility that detracted from the more useful interventions and formed part of a bigger picture of demoralisation (bearing in mind I'd taken myself there to cheer myself up at a pretty crap time anyway) .

A much more damaging intervention was the removal of benches from indoors. It meant my elderly father in law (and goodness knows how many other elderly or disabled people) could no longer walk to get his eggs for Iceland and whatever else.. and that his mobility greatly decreased.
He didn't get the smiles from strangers and the bits face to face interaction that were allowed that he needed to buoy up his mental health...
No exercise, no fresh air, no proper daylight, no interaction, day after day in front of the TV. It seems obvious to me that there are harms here that have never been considered.

@TheKeatingFive

So let's ban upsetting signs and reminders of health and anti crime campaigns. Cigarette packets, doctors waiting rooms, dentist pictures of rotting teeth, crime warning posters (the grooming gangs ones anyone?)

None of those are even remotely comparable. The government tried to make people responsible for a virus doing what viruses have done for millennia. There was nothing fair or reasonable about that. Alerting people to the personal dangers of smoking is nothing like that.

Exactly. It's absurd to suggest the two are remotely comparable.

Yes the peak has passed

Permanently? You think this is the last variant?

Have you heard of countries talking about the omicron peak? Not just U.K.

You do realise this virus is still mutating out there somewhere. Without a doubt mutating at an alarming rate because so many people are infected

Look at the graphs showing rapidly decreasing cases in many countries including ours.

Denmark? Where the Omicron wave in Europe began

Ironically the campaign that you want to keep has most impacted you to the point of continued fear. Maybe when all reporting stops you’ll stop feeling so heightened and at risk. I assume you’ve been triple vaccinated

Please stop this accusation that people who are cautious about the virus are 'living in fear". I've been working, using public transport, going on planes, seeing family all the way through this pandemic when restrictions have allowed it. No I'm not cowering behind my couch and yes I'm vaccinated

@Flaxmeadow

Yes the peak has passed

Permanently? You think this is the last variant?

Have you heard of countries talking about the omicron peak? Not just U.K.

You do realise this virus is still mutating out there somewhere. Without a doubt mutating at an alarming rate because so many people are infected

Look at the graphs showing rapidly decreasing cases in many countries including ours.

Denmark? Where the Omicron wave in Europe began

Ironically the campaign that you want to keep has most impacted you to the point of continued fear. Maybe when all reporting stops you’ll stop feeling so heightened and at risk. I assume you’ve been triple vaccinated

Please stop this accusation that people who are cautious about the virus are 'living in fear". I've been working, using public transport, going on planes, seeing family all the way through this pandemic when restrictions have allowed it. No I'm not cowering behind my couch and yes I'm vaccinated

I don’t think anyone uses static language such as permanently but yes I think the costs far outweigh the benefits and we are not aware enough of the huge cost we have incurred already.

The reason why we are not concerned enough re the cost is because all messaging has been used to suppress the virus, because compliance was needed to stop healthcare being overwhelmed.

We can’t keep huge costs in place just in case as much as some would like them to be.

Sarah Gilbert has also spoken on rising immunity and what this does for population.

The initial response was broadly consented to by the public, after two years I don’t know if they’d get the same again.

Some of the measures were ok for some, but not others they were told to accept it. Now I find this easy to accept as it was easy to see all measures would stop, others will find it harder.

Marsha, do you think this is the last variant?

I'm so pleased to hear, Flaxmeadow that despite all the advertising you've lived your life well.
Many others have been so affected by it that they have not and still can not. Many of these are children who don't yet have the same capacity to weigh risk up, many of those were elderly people that now have ongoing affects on their mobility and mental health.

@Flaxmeadow

Marsha, do you think this is the last variant?

There are thousands of variants, so no, however a variant is different to a VOC and as you can see from omicron the variables matter - more infectious but milder than we first allowed for. Hence all the posters crying out for ‘circuit breakers’ otherwise we’ll lockdown in Jan. We didn’t and they were wrong. Plus the SAGE figures were out.

What the virus means in the population now we have broader immunity we’ll see.

Check out Sarah Gilbert on why the severity of disease will reduce, even if the severity of virus doesn’t.

And what is the point in living in expectation and fear of worse anyway? What does it achieve other than increased anxiety.

I do know I don’t want mounting costs because people are afraid of the what if..

Buzzinwithbez I'm so pleased to hear, Flaxmeadow that despite all the advertising you've lived your life well.
Many others have been so affected by it that they have not and still can not. Many of these are children who don't yet have the same capacity to weigh risk up, many of those were elderly people that now have ongoing affects on their mobility and mental health.

Lived my life well?
People I know have died, 2 of my neighbours died within weeks of each other
2 close relatives, not elderly, before the vaccine and in previous good health, have been admitted to hospital, one on a ventilator in ICU. That person who survived ventilation has had long covid since April and a heart attack directly caused by covid damage. The person is in their 50s and was fine before catching the virus. A strain (Wuhan) that had a similar virulance to Omicron.

But Omicron is just a cold eh?

*since April 2020

There are thousands of variants, so no, however a variant is different to a VOC and as you can see from omicron the variables matter - more infectious but milder than we first allowed for.

Ok I'll rephrase it. Do you think Omicron is the last variant of concern and that no future VoC will be more virulent than Omicron?

@Flaxmeadow

Buzzinwithbez I'm so pleased to hear, Flaxmeadow that despite all the advertising you've lived your life well. Many others have been so affected by it that they have not and still can not. Many of these are children who don't yet have the same capacity to weigh risk up, many of those were elderly people that now have ongoing affects on their mobility and mental health.

Lived my life well?
People I know have died, 2 of my neighbours died within weeks of each other
2 close relatives, not elderly, before the vaccine and in previous good health, have been admitted to hospital, one on a ventilator in ICU. That person who survived ventilation has had long covid since April and a heart attack directly caused by covid damage. The person is in their 50s and was fine before catching the virus. A strain (Wuhan) that had a similar virulance to Omicron.

But Omicron is just a cold eh?

No one at all is getting out of here alive. We all die of something. I say this as someone who has lost multiple loved ones to several different diseases over the years. As absolutely shit as that is, there will always be diseases that kill people, as we all must die. We can live a half-life continually worrying that we/ our loved ones will be next to die or we can live the best life we can without constant doom mongering and clamouring for restrictions to be imposed on other people.

We can live a half-life continually worrying that we/ our loved ones will be next to die or we can live the best life we can without constant doom mongering and clamouring for restrictions to be imposed on other people

And again here is the unfounded accusation that caution is 'living a half life' and 'doom mongering'

It is nothing to with that. It's about health services not being overwhelmed during peak infection numbers. Thats what its always been about

@Flaxmeadow

There are thousands of variants, so no, however a variant is different to a VOC and as you can see from omicron the variables matter - more infectious but milder than we first allowed for.

Ok I'll rephrase it. Do you think Omicron is the last variant of concern and that no future VoC will be more virulent than Omicron?

Even there is a more virulent VoC in time no I still do not think we should keep hugely costly measures in place as some kind of security blanket for individual fears.

It is pointless to do so up until what you think will happen does, and if anyone hasn’t realised costs are huge. Our dc will already be paying I don’t want them to pay more for afraid adults to feel safe.

And if it does happen then two things - we have wider population immunity that needs to be taken into account and also I’m not convinced there will be appetite to go through what we just have. Initially the public consented and changed behaviour - whether protests become more extreme at the thought of another two year stint well we’ll see.

No way am I doing what some posters on here are doing which is take up a lot time thinking about the next variant and wanting to keep measures in place due to that. I’d rather live now freely than do that.

Tbh if I saw any poster and I thought it was a bit OTT, I’d just ignore it.

If I decide to smoke, I don’t read the cigarette packet - and start hyperventilating/cowering in a corner…

@Flaxmeadow

We can live a half-life continually worrying that we/ our loved ones will be next to die or we can live the best life we can without constant doom mongering and clamouring for restrictions to be imposed on other people

And again here is the unfounded accusation that caution is 'living a half life' and 'doom mongering'

It is nothing to with that. It's about health services not being overwhelmed during peak infection numbers. Thats what its always been about

The health services are not at risk of being over whelmed though, and omicron is a mild disease for most. I feel that the last two years have amounted to living a 'half-life' and that the prevalence of doom mongering has been unnecessarily high.... that's my opinion, which I am entitled too. You might feel like you've lived your best life these last two years. In fact, I'm guessing that's the case as you're clearly so determined to spread more doom (hint: you might refer to it as caution 😉)

Anyone that thinks 'the healthcare crisis has passed' is delusional or very ignorant.