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Original poster

Anyone want a perpetual lockdown

783 replies

beentoldcomputersaysno · 25/01/2022 01:23

I often see posters accused of wanting continual lockdowns, despite their post not suggesting it. I often assume it's done to deflect or antagonise posters who suggest a health measure(s) to adapt to life post-2019. However, is there anyone who posts on this board that does want perpetual lockdowns?

OP posts:
Wreath21 · 03/02/2022 01:07

Hasn't that always been the case, though? If your mental health is a mess because you live in poverty and are subject to police harassment and violence along with routine structural discrimination because you're black/brown/foreign/queer as well as poor, the only MH 'support' you're likely to get is the sort which tells you to know your place, obey your betters and work harder.

PandorasBex · 03/02/2022 02:16

@Wreath21

Hasn't that always been the case, though? If your mental health is a mess because you live in poverty and are subject to police harassment and violence along with routine structural discrimination because you're black/brown/foreign/queer as well as poor, the only MH 'support' you're likely to get is the sort which tells you to know your place, obey your betters and work harder.

Did you even understand what Flax was getting at?

110APiccadilly · 03/02/2022 07:02

I think there's a difference between MH problems caused or aggravated by an unnatural separation from friends and family (in some people's cases, from anyone at all) and those caused by fear of illness, a fear which is frequently out of proportion to the individual's risk. "I'm scared of Covid, so everyone should stay home," is a bit like saying, "I'm scared of flying, so all planes should be grounded." Those who are terrified of Covid do need help and support, but I'm not convinced that the help and support they need is for everyone to live restricted lives.

Emergency73 · 03/02/2022 07:22

@110APiccadilly

What about the health or indeed the opportunity to have mental health that has been lost by 5.4 million globally - and the many, many millions more who would have lost their live globally - before a solution was found to control the spread of infection?
What about the mental health of those who can’t access adequate healthcare because their hospitals are overwhelmed?
What about the mental health of those who have lost loved ones to Covid?
What about the mental health of those in countries where AIDS is prevalent, so catching Covid is very high risk?
What about having a healthy community who are able to support others with mental health issues?

Surely in an emergency situation, LIFE is the priority - and when that is under control - the focus should be on quality of life?

110APiccadilly · 03/02/2022 07:41

I'm intrigued by what solution you think has been found to control the spread of infection. Because I only know of things that slow it down, and often that's not even very clear.

Leaving that aside, I was talking about mental health, and the idea that the mental health damage caused by lockdown and by fear of Covid is somehow equivalent.

puppetear · 03/02/2022 08:44

Surely in an emergency situation, LIFE is the priority - and when that is under control - the focus should be on quality of life?

Well, maybe. But there are worse things than Covid out there. We learned that quite early on.

Even by May 2020, the only reason it was still classed as an emergency was the government's desire not to upset the popular opinion.

VikingOnTheFridge · 03/02/2022 09:50

I'm intrigued by what solution you think has been found to control the spread of infection. Because I only know of things that slow it down, and often that's not even very clear

Yes, I'd like to hear more about this too. Particularly in the context of Omicron.

QueBarbaridad · 03/02/2022 10:25

[quote Emergency73]@110APiccadilly

What about the health or indeed the opportunity to have mental health that has been lost by 5.4 million globally - and the many, many millions more who would have lost their live globally - before a solution was found to control the spread of infection?
What about the mental health of those who can’t access adequate healthcare because their hospitals are overwhelmed?
What about the mental health of those who have lost loved ones to Covid?
What about the mental health of those in countries where AIDS is prevalent, so catching Covid is very high risk?
What about having a healthy community who are able to support others with mental health issues?

Surely in an emergency situation, LIFE is the priority - and when that is under control - the focus should be on quality of life?[/quote]
Well said!

QueBarbaridad · 03/02/2022 10:35

@puppetear

Surely in an emergency situation, LIFE is the priority - and when that is under control - the focus should be on quality of life?

Well, maybe. But there are worse things than Covid out there. We learned that quite early on.

Even by May 2020, the only reason it was still classed as an emergency was the government's desire not to upset the popular opinion.

On an individual level, there are worse things than Covid. On a national and international level, what else has overwhelmed health services to that extent? The idea that restrictions after May 2020, and the second and third English lockdowns were to pander to popular opinion is a complete invention. They were to allow the health service to function.
Wreath21 · 03/02/2022 11:11

[quote Emergency73]@110APiccadilly

What about the health or indeed the opportunity to have mental health that has been lost by 5.4 million globally - and the many, many millions more who would have lost their live globally - before a solution was found to control the spread of infection?
What about the mental health of those who can’t access adequate healthcare because their hospitals are overwhelmed?
What about the mental health of those who have lost loved ones to Covid?
What about the mental health of those in countries where AIDS is prevalent, so catching Covid is very high risk?
What about having a healthy community who are able to support others with mental health issues?

Surely in an emergency situation, LIFE is the priority - and when that is under control - the focus should be on quality of life?[/quote]
As with many challenging situations, saving some lives will cost others.
Poverty is a greater risk to health than Covid: the majority of people who catch Covid will recover, but everyone who is in poverty for any length of time will suffer lasting damage to their physical and mental health. A lot of the Great Moral Panic around Covid stemmed from the perception among the generally comfortable that here was something they couldn't shop their way out of, therefore everyone had to rally round to protect them (despite the harm done to the poor and powerless).

Wreath21 · 03/02/2022 11:14

@QueBarbaridad The thing that has repeatedly overwhelmed the NHS is a decade of Tory policies starving it of funds. The government's approach during the pandemic was to funnel even more public money into the pockets of their mates - for inadequate or non-existent PPE - and 'reward' NHS staff with rounds of applause.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 03/02/2022 11:32

The idea that restrictions after May 2020, and the second and third English lockdowns were to pander to popular opinion is a complete invention. They were to allow the health service to function

But surely even that comes down to "popular opinion", because of those who seem to believe it does function and will accept almost anything in the vain hope this it'll continue to

Interestingly these are often the same people who never answer the question as to why much of it remained sut even in summer 2020, when cases were on the floor

puppetear · 03/02/2022 13:32

There will be those that argue it would have been much worse if we hadn’t closed down to protect it.

We will perhaps never know with total certainty.

But the evidence from opening up in July, and from avoiding closedown this Christmas, suggests quite the opposite.

DottyHarmer · 03/02/2022 14:20

The trouble with the rhetoric that it’s all the Tories’ fault is that that supposes that no other country of whatever political hue deemed measures necessary or were afraid of an overwhelmed health service.

It’s one-note laziness to still be banging on “the whole world’s laughing at us” or “we are the laughing stock of Europe”. Also, if NZ is the exemplar, why are they afraid of covid? Surely if it is such a paradise they should be quite laid-back about the whole thing conte t in the know,edge that their wonderful health service has three beds for everyone with a sore throat Hmm

VikingOnTheFridge · 03/02/2022 15:13

There did seem to be quite a bit of that X and Y are all laughing at us not so long ago didn't there? I haven't really seen it since Omicron kicked in though, so maybe that did for it. Very weird though, it always looked to me like a form of British exceptionalism. As though the rest of the world was going to be that bothered.

MarshaBradyo · 03/02/2022 15:48

Oh yeh the laughing stock phrases or ‘watching in horror’.

Rife for so long, finally gone

2X4B523P · 03/02/2022 16:05

@puppetear

There will be those that argue it would have been much worse if we hadn’t closed down to protect it.

We will perhaps never know with total certainty.

But the evidence from opening up in July, and from avoiding closedown this Christmas, suggests quite the opposite.

Absolutely, and early signs are last weeks mask mandate removal haven’t affected figures. All three key figures on the dashboard are in the green still. I’m sure a popular hot drink will spin the figures somehow.
PinkSparklyPussyCat · 03/02/2022 16:17

'Oh yeh the laughing stock phrases or ‘watching in horror’'

I used to see this and think surely other countries have enough problems of their own without laughing at us, or watching us in horror!

MarshaBradyo · 03/02/2022 16:23

Italy, NYC, India etc never got the same just us…

QueBarbaridad · 03/02/2022 16:49

@puppetear

There will be those that argue it would have been much worse if we hadn’t closed down to protect it.

We will perhaps never know with total certainty.

But the evidence from opening up in July, and from avoiding closedown this Christmas, suggests quite the opposite.

Would that be opening up in July 2020? Followed by no indoor mixing from November to May. Yes, a great indication that restrictions weren’t necessary.
GoldenOmber · 03/02/2022 17:41

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

'Oh yeh the laughing stock phrases or ‘watching in horror’'

I used to see this and think surely other countries have enough problems of their own without laughing at us, or watching us in horror!

Yes, and just odd but in really poor taste too. Remember people talking about the world “looking on in horror” at England lifting restrictions in summer 2021. Yeah, in Myanmar people are dying because the junta’s withholding oxygen supplies, and in Tunisia the hospitals are stretched so far that even mortuaries have run out of room, but what’s really horrified the world is English supermarkets removing the one-way stickers Hmm
MarshaBradyo · 03/02/2022 17:49

Ah Golden that was so well said it’s undone some of the bollocks we’ve had for so long!

puppetear · 03/02/2022 17:51

Would that be opening up in July 2020?

It wasn’t, actually. But good that you remind me. That first unlocking was also fine.

Followed by no indoor mixing from November

I don’t think you can really say that the July unlocking caused the November spike, can you?

But like saying summer causes winter.

I suppose you can say anything. It’s a free world.

QueBarbaridad · 03/02/2022 19:44

@puppetear
Well, it was fine until it wasn’t.
Your contention is that what didn’t happen in 2021 and 2022 when we have vaccines is a better guide to what might have happened without lockdowns than what actually happened when restrictions were loosened before vaccines?

puppetear · 03/02/2022 20:13

Actually that wasn't my suggestion at all — I was more thinking about 2022. I forgot there were actually two July unlockings. I meant July 2022.

I don't think July 2021 can be used in evidence. Despite it being also an unlocking after an extensive period of lockdown because infection numbers were much lower and there wasn't such an opposition in SAGE —at least in my now slightly hazy recollection.