COVID: How many boosters are enough?

[PurpleRayne89]

If you’re vaccinated with all three jabs. When do you draw the line if we are expected to get a 4th or 5th booster?

When, If ever will you say it’s enough and refuse to be injected again until they develop something more long lasting.

What are you general thoughts on the vaccine?

No arguments, all opinions welcome and will be respected. Let’s discuss this in a mature fashion.

@Iggly

Sounds like you’re one of the lucky one *@Buzzinwithbez*

On average, covid isn’t mild. I know fully vaccinated people who are still struggling months later!

I'm very sorry to hear that.

[quote Iggly]@Whyevencare

Why is it nonsense? Omicron is a nasty virus! Luckily most of us are vaccinated so most of us will be fine. It’s milder but not mild. A bit of Googling would tell you that.[/quote]
But plenty of unvaccinated people are reporting very mild symptoms.

Not saying it's ALWAYS mild, but it's not definitely nasty if you're unvaccinated. It's an odd virus.

@PandorasBex

www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00258-1/fulltext?s=08#

High COVID-19 vaccination rates were expected to reduce transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in populations by reducing the number of possible sources for transmission and thereby to reduce the burden of COVID-19 disease. Recent data, however, indicate that the epidemiological relevance of COVID-19 vaccinated individuals is increasing. In the UK it was described that secondary attack rates among household contacts exposed to fully vaccinated index cases was similar to household contacts exposed to unvaccinated index cases (25% for vaccinated vs 23% for unvaccinated). 12 of 31 infections in fully vaccinated household contacts (39%) arose from fully vaccinated epidemiologically linked index cases. Peak viral load did not differ by vaccination status or variant type 1. In Germany, the rate of symptomatic COVID-19 cases among the fully vaccinated (“breakthrough infections”) is reported weekly since 21. July 2021 and was 16.9% at that time among patients of 60 years and older 2. This proportion is increasing week by week and was 58.9% on 27. October 2021 (Figure 1) providing clear evidence of the increasing relevance of the fully vaccinated as a possible source of transmission. A similar situation was described for the UK. Between week 39 and 42, a total of 100.160 COVID-19 cases were reported among citizens of 60 years or older. 89.821 occurred among the fully vaccinated (89.7%), 3

[quote AutomaticMoon]@PandorasBex

www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00258-1/fulltext?s=08#

High COVID-19 vaccination rates were expected to reduce transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in populations by reducing the number of possible sources for transmission and thereby to reduce the burden of COVID-19 disease. Recent data, however, indicate that the epidemiological relevance of COVID-19 vaccinated individuals is increasing. In the UK it was described that secondary attack rates among household contacts exposed to fully vaccinated index cases was similar to household contacts exposed to unvaccinated index cases (25% for vaccinated vs 23% for unvaccinated). 12 of 31 infections in fully vaccinated household contacts (39%) arose from fully vaccinated epidemiologically linked index cases. Peak viral load did not differ by vaccination status or variant type 1. In Germany, the rate of symptomatic COVID-19 cases among the fully vaccinated (“breakthrough infections”) is reported weekly since 21. July 2021 and was 16.9% at that time among patients of 60 years and older 2. This proportion is increasing week by week and was 58.9% on 27. October 2021 (Figure 1) providing clear evidence of the increasing relevance of the fully vaccinated as a possible source of transmission. A similar situation was described for the UK. Between week 39 and 42, a total of 100.160 COVID-19 cases were reported among citizens of 60 years or older. 89.821 occurred among the fully vaccinated (89.7%), 3[/quote]

You quoted me because? It's already well-known the vaccinated can spread infection. It is to much fewer people, however.

@Haffiana

I personally intend to tell that bloody virus that it is not allowed to mutate.

When it listens to me, then is the time I will refuse a booster.

This

The expert medical and scientific advice (including from the WHO) was always Vaccine Plus, not Vaccine Just.

Mitigations (which are not the same as restrictions). Masks, vaccines, good ventilation.

They have also warned of the risk of possibly more dangerous mutations developing in the unvaccinated. Hence the need to get the rest of the world vaccinated (as well as being the morally right thing to do).

As for boosters. Well just like several other vaccinations including the flu, efficacy can wane over time, plus new and different strains. So, a top-up.

Longer term it won't be the same. But right now SARS-COV-2 is a still new and evolving disease - that can cause disability, as well as kill. In the future we'll have more of the world vaccinated - but also better knowledge, and wider availability of the new drug treatments. (We will also hopefully have vaccines that can protect against multiple strains).

The folks I know who got Omicron (vaccinated) were very poorly. The unvaccinated people that caught it had minimal symptoms.

@XenoBitch this is rubbish! Most of the people in intensive care are unvaxxed

I'll get further boosters if they are required for travel.

I have had my three but going forward hopefully it will be like the flu jab so free once a year for vulnerable people, if you choose and a paid one for non vulnerable so work places could offer it or people could pay privately, priced similar to flu jab. I wouldn't want to be practically forced into having one with every variant that might be suspect.

@AuntTwacky

The folks I know who got Omicron (vaccinated) were very poorly. The unvaccinated people that caught it had minimal symptoms.

@XenoBitch this is rubbish! Most of the people in intensive care are unvaxxed

@AuntTwacky this is not the case. As you can see from Public Health England's own stats for the last four weeks, you're slightly more likely to be hospitalised if you are vaccinated.

(Source: assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1050721/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-4.pdf)

@orzoisorange 90+% of the population is vaccinated at least once. Only 70% of hospitalisations are vaccinated. 10% are not vaccinated, yet 20% of hospitalisations. Most of ICU admissions are unvaccinated.

After a year of vaccination still this is being misunderstood?

*30% - fat fingers, sorry

I'll only have the AZ vaccination now - had it for my first two and then Pfizer for the booster. I have been continuously ill after having Pfizer (two months now) and cannot put it down to anything else.

BrightYellowDaffodil
Yes I did as you were. Either way it wasn't what my comment was in relation to, again at no point did I discuss the function of either only the frequency.

@orzoisorange

You’re comparing different things.

“Hospitalisations” is not the same as “in intensive care”.

And as PP pointed out, as 90% if the population over 12 have had at least one jab, if unvaxxed make up more than 10% of whatever figure you’re actually comparing, then it proves vaccines work.

@siblingrevelryagain

For me, enough will be when the pain, inconvenience and expense outweighs any benefit.

Right now, it’s about an hour or two out of my day, it smarts slightly on impact and leaves me feeling a bit bleurgh for a few hours, and costs me nothing upfront. So as long as scientists I trust tell me we need another jab I’ll have another jab. And another. And another.

I don’t understand the pushback from people who previously had the vaccine but seem to have reached breaking point after 2 or 3. If I thought I might die and a doctor offered me dialysis, or chemo or any other regular treatment to keep me alive or prevent illness (like a daily insulin injection), I can’t imagine saying “I’ve had enough now, you can stick your life saving treatment because you promised I’d only need a few, and now the science has changed I’m out”

Because I'm still unwell with side effects, 6 months after my second jab so I won't have any more as they've made me so poorly.

there is quite a range of opinions within the scientific community (generally, not just a few extreme outliers) like here: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6f13ec0e-7b96-11ec-846f-fcbd721f9c02?shareToken=c9ac6b0b39b3e4b25e240d8b6fb70420

That article doesn't say what you seem to think it does. The few dissenting voices are largely discredited scientists, those with an agenda and/or no expertise in any relevant field.

As a general rule, I find doing the exact opposite of anything Allyson Pollock says is a pretty good place to start. She has no qualifications or background in anything remotely resembling epidemiology or virology.

Professor Robert Dingwall speaks a lot of commonsense and is well worth listening to, but he is a professor of sociology and he approaches the pandemic from that point of view rather than from a specifically scientific one.

there have been thousands of serious vaccine injuries reported to yellow card and VAERS

This is a misunderstanding of what's happened, which is understandable as it's been pretty heavily misrepresented by certain groups in the media.

It's true that thousands of potential reactions have been reported. This is because any new health condition or worsening of any health condition needs to be reported after vaccination. This is important so that they can be investigated to find out which might be related to the vaccine and which were caused by other things. This number refers to the number of conditions reported, and not to the number that have been found to be related to the vaccine. That is much smaller and currently sits many times lower than the risk of serious reactions to the virus, even for younger people. Sorting those two things out is an enormous and important job.

I've had two plus the booster now, wouldn't mind having another one. Afaik I haven't had it yet even when my household did, so something's obviously working for me!

I will have boosters as and when they are recommended for my age and health status.

What do I think of the vaccines generally? I think it is absolutely phenomenal they have been developed and rolled out so quickly. They have saved tens of thousands of lives in this country and made it possible to reopen the economy and society, albeit not quite fully.

If new vaccines come along which confer longer immunity and/or have fewer side effects than the current lot, that will be even more amazing.

@Iggly

Sounds like you’re one of the lucky one *@Buzzinwithbez*

On average, covid isn’t mild. I know fully vaccinated people who are still struggling months later!

Um, yeah, on average it is. What do you think on average means?

The research seems to indicate that fourth boosters are not effective.

As far as updated ones, I think a yearly one similar to flu would probably work pretty well, though I also expect you'd see a similar profile in terms of who avails themselves. But that should be fine.

I think more than that and logistically it will begin to be very diminishing returns.

I don't think requiring it for travel is likely to be sustainable.

@thing47

As a general rule, I find doing the exact opposite of anything Allyson Pollock says is a pretty good place to start. She has no qualifications or background in anything remotely resembling epidemiology or virology.

What, as opposed to Christine Pagel the virologist/immunologist/epidemiologist?

Funny how those dissenting voices are always described as discredited, having an irrelevant field of expertise or “having an agenda” but those accusations only go one way.